John Ball

Blue is keep clear boat - the concept of hunting would apply to the ROW boat. By 'hunting' I mean that a ROW boat alters course to impede the course of a keep clear boat There are a couple of rules that apply. Green is ROW and the other boat must keep clear - but if Green alters course, she is subject to R16.1 and must give room for the other boat to keep clear. Green can sail where ever she wants, but R23.2 says don't alter course to get in the way of a boat on another leg of the course. John

Hi John, My take is that you on port were the 'at fault' boat in the collision, and the other boat, on stbd could be eligible for redress, not you. The HMS rules discuss when and how to score redress, but the operative rule is R 62. 62.1 A request for redress or a protest committee’s decision to consider redress shall be based on a claim or possibility that a boat’s score or place in a race or series has been or may be, through no fault of her own, made significantly worse by . . . John

Then R 10 applies and you on port tack must stay clear. John

Hi John, It is not clear from your description, but I think you are saying that you were close hauled on port, and the other boat was running downwind also on port - so R 11 applies and he as windward has to keep clear. Also as you were on different legs of the course the ROW boat should not interfere, but sail her proper course. ie - don't go 'hunting' the other boat. See R23.2 John

Hi John, The answer is 'No'. You took your penalty. You gained no advantage. The other skipper is perhaps misunderstanding E4.3(b) where you may need to take additional penalties until you no longer have an advantage - but this is still at the time of the incident - and once satisfied - the incident os over. Sail your best race. John

I have no experience with Team Racing and would not attempt to comment on questions, but I may be able to point you in the right direction for information. You may download the Team Racing Call Book from the World Sailing Site - go to this link and scroll down for Team Racing. https://www.sailing.org/inside-world-sailing/rules-regulations/racing-rules-of-sailing/ For questions about the windward mark and R 18, look for calls that begin with E. John

My simplistic view is that if you have too much rake, you get too much weather helm, and to make the boat sailable, you depower the main (more twist, sheet eased) - so you are making the boat slower by reducing the power and pointing. From reading many tuning guides, they generally say that for the A rig, the mast should be between vertical to 3 degrees rake. However if your boat builder gives a specific number - use it. John

You can only be 'black flagged' if R30.4 is in effect. If it is in effect, then you are not allowed in the 'forward triangle' during the last minute. So cross the line and you are DSQd automatically. You may find the article on my web site Chapter 2 Starts, especially from Page 7 Starting Signals https://sites.google.com/site/johnsrcsailingrulesandtactics/ John

From my research, mast rake should come from the builder, but mast prebend is a function of sail shape, and should come from your sail maker. Again from my research, many sail makers for IOMs suggest about 14mm of prebend at the tip, extending about 900mm down. John

Hi John949, I have had this discussion with International Judges and the opinion is that two boats just rafted together are not disabled as they can sail free by the action of water, wind, sail trim and rudder. A similar situation could occur at a mark rounding, where a boat breaking some part of R18 causes several boats to raft up. The analogy they give is to consider a dinghy that has capsized avoiding a keep clear boat. That dinghy is not eligible for redress, as it can self-right and continue in the race. So it is considered different from 'disabled' such as being entangled or where something broke. World Sailing, Case 135 is worth reading - in that case, a dinghy that capsized may only get redress if something broke or there was injury. The absence of comment that redress should be available just because of the capsize is significant. John

Hi John949 E6.1(b) gives any boat the right to request redress - however, redress may only be awarded by a PC for items in the redress list which is in R62.1 plus the items added by E6.6. The skipper requesting redress has to state the grounds for redress. Which item in R62.1 or E6.6 fits? The request for redress would be denied as the facts of the incident matches none of the listed items. John

Hi John949, Unfortunately redress is not available in the given 'facts' above. So the unfortunate skipper, if they get off the course as required by E3.7, is to be scored a DNS if the PC finds the boat was forced to break a rule and acts correctly in the hearing. There is a mismatch between the intent of 43.1(a) and the application of E3.7. The comparison to big boats, is that there is no designated process to advise the skipper(s) involved for a breach of 30.3 and 30.4. Those rules tell the RC how to score the boats involved. There is a 'practice' to advise those boats by radio, or by displaying their numbers at the first mark, and in 30.4, a process to notify them in the event of a general recall. However in RC, as we do not use big boat signals, we use audibles. E3.7 was written to advise the affected boat(s). However it goes further than R29 (how to recall) and 30.3 and 30.4 by providing a direction for the boat(s) to leave the course - and this removes the option for a fouled boat to use 43.1(a). I plan to discuss this issue with the IRSA Racing Rules Committee. John

This is probably a very rare scenario, and getting a rule change in the RRS is a long process, but you can deal with it in the short term by using your NOR/SI to modify E3.7, perhaps to say that the RC will notify the involved boats, and drop the 'leave the course' phrase. That leaves the responsibility of the skippers to know what to do when hailed. John

Here is a definitive answer - Thanks Gordon, Facts Found: In a race sailed under Appendix E, Radio Sailing Rules, the race committee signalled that rule 30.4, Black Flag Rule applied. W was overlapped to windward of L. Both boats were moving forward slowly with sails flogging. W closed the gap with L and there was contact between the port side of W and the starboard side of L. The boats were not entangled but continued to sail forward slowly. L was unable to bear away. Before the starting signal both boats were on the course side of the line. The race committee informed both boats that they had broken rule 30.4.; After the boats separate, L returns to the pre-start side of the starting line, crosses the start line and sails the course. L protests W and claims that she is exonerated under rule 43.1. Conclusions W to windward failed to keep clear of L to leeward, and broke RRS 11. In a start under RRS 30.4 a part of the hulls of both W and L were in the triangle formed by the ends of the starting line and the windward mark during the last minute before the starting signal. W and L broke RRS 30.4. Since L was compelled to break RRS 30.4 as a consequence of Y breaking RRS 11, she is exonerated under RRS 43.1(a) for this breach. When informed by the race committee that she had broken RRS 30.4 L did not immediately leave the course area and broke RRS E3.7. Decision W is disqualified for breaking rule 11. L is exonerated under RRS 43.1(a). for breaking rule 30.4. L is disqualified for breaking RRS E3.7. Comment If L had left the course area immediately after being informed that she had broken rule 30.4 the conclusion would be different (see Question 3 of WS Case 140: The race committee made no improper action in informing L that she had broken RRS 30.4. There are no grounds for redress under RRS 62.1(a). Since L is exonerated under RRS 43.1(a) the race committee is required to change her score from BFD to DNS.

One of the judges on the RRS forum pointed me to Case 140. Case 140 allows that a boat that was forced to break a rule (even a Black Flag 30.4) by another boat that broke a rule is exonerated and may be scored with her finish position provided that she went back and started correctly and sailed the course. John

Hi Chris, One item needs exploring and I will post it on the RRS forum and report back. So the first question is given that windward drifted into leeward, breaking R 11, and before they could separate, they both drifted over the start line, breaking R30.4 which was in effect; was leeward compelled to break R30.4? Leeward could have avoided being over early if W had not drifted into her. The second question is does R 43.1(a) apply? And if yes, then 43.2 would apply and exonerate Leeward. But to get a finish position, and as redress is not available here, L would have to protest W, ignore the Black Flag call, and come back and start correctly and sail the course. Can Leeward do that? John 43.1 (a) When as a consequence of breaking a rule a boat has compelled another boat to break a rule, the other boat is exonerated for her breach. 43.2 A boat exonerated for breaking a rule need not take a penalty and shall not be penalized for breaking that rule.

Hi Chris, Looking over this thread again, I see both boats given BFD without a hearing. They must leave the course immediately. R 43 Exoneration - nothing applies, so no exoneration for leeward. I cannot see grounds for the leeward boat to be granted redress. Any boat may request redress and E6.6(f) allows 'disabled'. See definition of Disabled. I do not believe that rafted together qualified as disabled as the boats can sail apart by the action of wind, water, sail trim and rudder. John

You can estimate the amount of travel required by using pythagoras. This assumes that the main travels from center line to a right angle when the boon hits the shrouds. This gives a close estimation of the amount of travel of the sheeting line. Use the distance from the gooseneck swivel to the main boom sheeting point as both the base and height. eg if the length along the boom is 200mm, then the sheeting length is square root of 200 squared times two. This equals 282mm Now use pi - and measure the dia of your drum. dia times 3.14 divided into 282 give number of revolutions. John

Just my opinion. I think the correct penalty for W and for L is BFD. I don't see any grounds for a PC to reverse the BFD for the leeward boat. There may be a case for a boat that was forced over early by another boat that was breaking a rule, but in this example L was ROW. Even if a PC found some grounds to change the decision for L (who would still have to comeback and restart or she is OCS and has not sailed the course), there are a list of grounds for redress, and non seem to apply here. If two boats are just rafted together, they are not entangled as they can sail apart just by the actions of wind, water, sails and rudder ( a parallel example is a dinghy that has tipped over and may self-right - she is not considered disabled). John

HI Terry, I think the answer is 'No'. (c) is to cover a boat that has not yet rounded all the marks or is a leg behind, but crosses the line while sailing to the next mark. John

Almost - but not quite correct. Here is the definition and note than when sailing directly downwind or by the lee, the leeward side is where the boom is. John Leeward and Windward A boat’s leeward side is the side that is or, when she is head to wind, was away from the wind. However, when sailing by the lee or directly downwind, her leeward side is the side on which her mainsail lies. The other side is her windward side.

HI Terry, The answer is in the preamble to Part 2 of the RRS, which says that certain rules place a limitation or obligation on a ROW boat. SECTION A RIGHT OF WAY A boat has right of way over another boat when the other boat is required to keep clear of her. However, some rules in Sections B, C and D limit the actions of a right-of-way boat. The ROW rules are in Section A, but the rules in sections B, C and D may limit the actions of a ROW boat. Mark Room is in Section C. So while the stbd gybe boat has ROW over Port, under R 10, if Post has gained mark room under R 18.2(b) then STBD has to give room for port to sail to and around the mark, including room to gybe. There are a couple of additional factors to consider. As this is a gate mark, R18.4 does not apply. If this were a beat to windward, then R18 is turned off for boats on opposite tacks. But as this is a run, R 18 applies and places the restriction on the ROW boat. John

I think I have updated all the chapters which provided links to the RRS, Case and Call Books. If you find any that do not work, please post a reply here. It was a lot of work to go through all the chapters looking for the links, so I have changed my approach. In places where there was a link to a WS document, I have changed it to link to my web site's Racing Rules Reference Documents page. https://sites.google.com/site/johnsrcsailingrulesandtactics/racing-rules-reference-documents On that page, I link to the WS Rules page where you may scroll down and find the appropriate document. This way, if WS change the links again, I only have to update the links on this one page. It is probably less convenient for you, but it should work. John

It appears that World Sailing has changed some web site addresses, so the links in my web site chapters do not work at the moment. I have updated the links on the Racing Rules References page, https://sites.google.com/site/johnsrcsailingrulesandtactics/racing-rules-reference-documents but it will take a few days to go through and edit my source text and resave and upload the revisions. In the mean time here is the new link to the WS web page to access the RRS, ERS, Case and Call Books. https://www.sailing.org/inside-world-sailing/rules-regulations/racing-rules-of-sailing/ John

Hi John 949. You also asked a different question in your post from above. I also struggle with what happens if yellow establishes the overlap inside the zone. Rule 18 says that yellow must give green mark room, but how do you give mark room to a boat on your outside? I'm pretty sure that the intention is that yellow loses her Rule 11 rights if she doesn't establish an overlap before green enters the zone - I just don't think the rule is very well written to convey that. What I think you are asking is what happens if Yellow establishes an overlap from astern but inside the zone. Putting this another way should make it clear - if Yellow established the overlap in the zone, then Green must have been clear ahead when she reached the zone - so Green is entitled to mark room 18.2(b) and (c). So Yellow should avoid getting inside Green, so that Green can pass close to the mark. John