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John Ball

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  1. Hi John, Now I see what you are describing and it is different from my first impression. If several boats are overlapped approaching the downwind mark, and the inside boat turns first and hits the mark, or turns inside the mark, then they caused the problem themselves and no other boats have broken any rules. Frequently we see the outside boat start to turn first and the inside boats respond, and the boat closest to the mark hits it. Now the outside boat has failed to give mark room and breaks R 18.2. The middle boat gets exonerated under R 21 and the boat that hits the mark and breaks R 31 is also exonerated under R 21. However if the inside boat is on the wrong side of the mark, they still have to round the mark correctly to comply with R 28, the 'string' rule. Although we do not see it practiced often, if one or more boats are affected by the action of the outside boat,such that the outside boat gains several places, she could be considered to have gained 'significant' advantage, and be required to do several penalty turns until the gain is eliminated. The other factor to consider is which boat has ROW. If the overlapped boats are on port gybe and the mark is to be rounded to port, then the outside boat has ROW as leeward under R 11 and the windward boats have to keep clear. So the inside boat cannot push outward to gain more room - cannot do a tactical rounding. The outside boat had to give mark room , but no more - how much is enough? If they did not touch each other or the mark, then 'enough' was provided. But if the boats are approaching the same mark (rounded to port) and are on stbd gybe, the inside boat is ROW under R 11, and can push the other boats out a bit wider to go in wide and out close - just be careful not to break R 18.4 by going further from the mark. John
  2. Here is one possible diagram for this incident. Some of the important facts to be established are: 1. was this a gate and if so which end - this shows the port rounding. 2. which gybe is Yellow on at pos 5 and which gybe are Green and Red? 3. if Yellow gains ROW after her tack, does she provide room for the other boats under R 15? 4. Which gybe are Green and Red on. 5. When Green and Red reach the zone are they overlapped When Yellow tacks in the zone, she loses mark room, but may become ROW boat under R 10 or R 11, depending on port or stbd rounding and the gybe of the other boats. John
  3. There is no quick answer to the question except - yes, any of the boats may protest another boat or boats in the incident - but who is going to be found 'at fault' - a protest hearing would try to establish several things 1. which boats entered the zone and when, and at those moments, which boats were clear ahead/astern or overlapped with each other ie who is entitled to mark room and who must give mark room and to whom. 2. what was the amount of room between the mark and the inside boat and between that boat and the two later arrivals. Also remember that when the ahead boat bore away and gybed and then tacked (in the zone) - by tacking in the zone, they lose mark room rights and become subject to R 18.3. At this point the two outside boats are overlapped to weather and are subject to R 11 relative to the lead boat, but that 'lead boat' cannot make them sail above close hauled or breaks R 18.3. Without some 'facts' or a clear diagram, there is no way to answer. It could be that the two outside boats gave enough room, and the inside boat again misjudged the distance. For the two later arrivals, were they overlapped with each other when the first one of the two reached the zone? If yes, then the outside boat has to give room for both inside boats to round. So it could be that the outside boat did not give room, But is could be that the middle boat established a late overlap from astern, inside the zone and was not entitled to mark room from the outer boat and that was the cause of the contact(s) . So several ways this could play out. John
  4. What is a good width? I do not know of any advice written in the Race Management documents. From my own experience, a good width is a minimum of 6 boat lengths and a maximum of 10 boat lengths. If the marks are too close, the fleet is still congested both approaching the gate, and on the beat after rounding and tacking back into the course. The longer the gate, then the greater the bias to one end over the other - eventually all boats will round one end and the purpose of the gate is lost. Fleet size should play a factor - a small fleet, the marks may be closer, but a big fleet, move them further to give more space to the fleet. Can the zones overlap and how do the rules apply. Yes, there is no reason for the gates NOT to overlap. The rules do not care. The rules apply to each mark separately. This is because R 18 and Mark Room only apply between boats that are rounding the same mark, in the same direction. So a boat heading for the left mark, rounded to port, does not give mark room to a boat heading for the right mark, to be rounded to stbd and vice versa. If those two boats converge, then the applicable ROW rule applies, eg Port keeps clear of Stbd, windward keeps clear of Leeward, or astern keeps clear of ahead. Note that at a Gate, 18.4 removes the restriction about sailing further from a mark. Is there any reason for the RC to set a biased gate? Usually No, but if there is a special condition on the course that prefers one side of the course, then giving the gate a bias to the other end may help to spread the fleet out more. John
  5. If you would like some homework, there is an article on the downwind gate in the Seattle IOM Newsletter June 2014 issue - starting at page 28. Also there is an article on the windward mark in the October 2014 issue, starting on page 29 http://www.ibextrax.com/Update/ John
  6. Does a starboard running boat have any right of way over a port running boat that is also the inside boat at a gate mark of a course? Yes, stbd has ROW but gives mark room to an inside overlapped boat if they are rounding the same end of the gate. If no, then why does a starboard tack boat have right of way against a port tack boat at a windward mark? There are some some exceptions in R 18 where mark room is not given. They are listed in R 18.1. As it is a beat to windward, R 18.1.a says R 18 Mark room does not apply, and the port tack boat is not entitled to mark room. Just R 10 apples. John
  7. I read somewhere that you use the V-tail programming function - look in the manual for your radio (DX6i is page 42 and 43). Then set one of the channels to servo reverse, so stick down brings in both ch 2 and 4, and stick up move them both out. John
  8. Case 63 has some guidance. CASE 63 At a mark, when space is made available to a boat that is not entitled to it, she may, at her own risk, take advantage of the space. To answer this, a lot depends upon the location of the next mark. If the next mark is back upwind, then the clear ahead boat is entitled to mark room, and that entitles her to sail to the mark if her proper course is close to the mark. In this case, the ahead boat is entitled to luff up to their proper course and the astern boat must keep clear or she breaks R 18.2.b and 18.2.c However if there is also a downwind offset mark, then the ahead boat that went deep, is now limited that her proper course is no longer to sail close to the mark, but to sail towards the next mark. This leave a hole that the astern boat could sail into. Now it gets more complicated. The ahead/now leeward boat still has luffing rights under R 11, but when she alters course to luff, she must give room, under R 16.1. That room includes room for the inside/now windward boat not to hit the mark - see the definition of Room. So in this case, she cannot force the inside/now windward boat to hit the mark or outside/leeward breaks R 16.1 John
  9. There was contact and subsequently boat A retired. End of incident. Rules have been satisfied. John
  10. There are two very good articles on a Rules study blog. The first talks about what 'giving room' means. http://rrsstudy.blogspot.ca/2014/03/back-to-basics-part-6-room.html The second is the other side of the coin. This is about what 'keeping clear' is about. http://rrsstudy.blogspot.ca/2014/02/back-to-basics-part1-keeping-clear.html John
  11. Yes, that was my thought - that the max bend force is applied at the centre wheel, so the top 6 inches beyond the centre wheel would not get much bend. But if you have already cut the mast to length,don't worry about it. John
  12. The boat nearest to the zone. From the definition of Zone Zone The area around a mark within a distance of three hull lengths of the boat nearer to it. A boat is in the zone when any part of her hull is in the zone.
  13. One additional thought - it is easier to add prebend to a French mast, then to remove some, if overdone. So err on too little and rig the boat and try it - you can always slip off the sail and add a bit more later. John
  14. Push the tube through. The French tube is a 7075 alloy and is hard to bend. It has an amazing ability to ‘spring back’. So when I use the bender, I try to creep up on the setting by running the tube, once in and out, then remove and look down it – no change, add half a turn and go again. The way I do it is 1. sight the tube for any existing bend, and then put the prebend in the same direction. I do not cut the tube until finished. 2. I measure from the bottom of the mast to the lower band, and then from the lower band to the top of the mast. Tape the tip with masking tape. Then measure down from the tip to the length for the bend and tape again. That way the extension of the tube is at the top and you can apply the bend over the entire length (just trim off the top once finished). 3. Mark the centreline of the mast on both sides at top middle and bottom fro reference. 4.Place the tip in the bender at the middle wheel and run forward until the bend limit is at the middle wheel, and then run out – hold the mast tight on vertical as it will try to twist. Pop out of the bender and sight down the tube – adjust the screw and repeat as necessary until the bend is achieved. John
  15. Hi Phil, There is no one answer to that question. It depends upon the mast tube that you are using, and on the luff curve build into the mainsail. I use the French 11 mm Hi tensile thin wall tube, and for my A rig, I have 15mm of deflection at the tip and the bend extends down 900 mm from the tip. John
  16. This is what I made. It works great. I have seen some with the outer wheels at about 8 inch on center, but that puts a lot of pressure on the mast tube and can cause it to go oval. On mine,the wheels are 12 inches on center. It is made from mostly scrap pieces and the stainless hardware cost about $4.00. The wheels were cut out of some leftover oak planks, and I cur them with a hole cutter. Then I chucked them in a drill press and spun them and then used a dremel sanding disk to cut the grooves. Access to a lathe would be even better, but not necessary. John
  17. Hi Malcolm, changing the diagram to a stbd rounding would not change the rules that apply. The above comments would still hold. John
  18. This rases an interesting point that suggests a weakness in the current wording of E2.3 The wording in the rule is 'E2.3. Boat out of Radio Control'. and the hail is specified as "your sail number . . out of control". Not every 'out of control' is radio related, yet the current wording of E 2.3 does not allow us to distinguish between radio problems and another temporary loss of sailing control. So, effectively any hail of 'out of control' seems to require retirement. To me it is not clear that every hail of 'out of control' or 'I cannot steer' or similar words equals 'out of Radio Control'. Those phrases could represent some temporary out of control situation -such as a stalled rudder, a broach, in irons etc. while loss of radio control is more of a technical problem and more long lasting in nature - hence the need to retire. I would like to be able to hail that I am 'out of control', to warn the fleet to treat me as an obstruction and avoid me if you can. If I have an obligation to keep clear, then I may break a rule and may take a penalty, once control is reacquired. If I am out of radio control, then treat me as an obstruction and avoid me if you can, and I may break a rule, but I am retiring. Calling' out of control' does not negate an obligation to keep clear. You may still be breaking a rule by failing to keep clear. I would like to see the hail in E2.3 be improved to include the word 'Radio'. John
  19. Hi Malcolm, Is this diagram close? Case 25 is close. Green has ROW as leeward boat R 11, and Yellow is entitled to Mark Room R 18. Mark Room is defined, however, the word Room with in Mark Room is also a defined word. The definition of Room includes the concept of "while manoeuvring promptly in a seamanlike way". So my sense of this is that Yellow, when she lost control and dumped her sails to come upright was not 'seamanlike'. So Green was giving the required room as required by R 18 up to the contact and while Green breaks R 14, she is exonerated. Yellow breaks R 11 by failing to stay clear. Hope this helps John
  20. I can add a bit more detail to the answers above. Given that this regatta was sailed in England, and that it was sailed under MYA standard Sailing Instructions (2014), they contain the following 2.13 Redress RRS E6.6(f) is replaced by: (f) an entanglement or grounding because of the action of a boat that was breaking a rule of Part 2 or of a vessel not racing that was required to keep clear. This replaces the E6.6.f phrase about 'disabled and retire'. So the answer to Sarah's question about 'entangled/became free' is that the conditions exist for redress to be available. John
  21. Slow answer is 'it depends'. For example, the standard Appendix E6.6.f requires that a boat be disabled and retire to be able to request redress. So for redress to be available for an entanglement that later becomes free, then there needs to be an override in the Regatta SI that modifies E.6.6.f to allow some combination of entangled and without retiring. John
  22. Sorry John, I cannot give a definitive answer. The decision has to be made by the Redress Hearing (Protest) committee after they have gathered the facts about the incident. When I am on a Protest Committee and looking at a case that requires some judgement (not just black and white), I refer to the ISAF case book, The RYA Appeals Book, The US Sail Appeals Book, and the ISAF Q&A cases. I look for cases that relate to the situation and rules applicable to see if there are guidelines - boundaries - criteria that will help. I keep these materials on my small laptop that I take to regattas. The documents are in pdf format and keyword search quickly finds applicable reference material. In this 'hypothetical' case, the facts may show that the boat rounded the mark in first place with a lead of xxx boat lengths. An RC member blew a whistle as the boat crossed between the adjacent marks (the finish line?). Several hails were made immediately by the RC member and other sailors that this was not a finish.The boat sailed off the course for y boat lengths. Three other boats rounded the mark and sailed on downwind. The first boat resumed sailing the course in fourth place. Based on these facts, the RC made a mistake, but the correcting hail that it was not a finish happened immediately, and well before other boats reached the mark. So I would conclude that the places lost were by the action of the lead boat in not resuming to race as soon as the hail was made. So I would not give redress in this case. However if the facts were that several other boats rounded the mark before they and the RC hailed about the mistake, then I may lean towards the places being lost by the action of the RC, and so redress may be appropriate. If the latter and redress is appropriate, then a second decision needs to be made by the hearing . "what redress to grant"? During a redress hearing, it is normal to ask the skipper "What redress are you requesting"? The committee has several options ranging from resailing the heat, awarding average points, awarding points equal to a specific finish position eg. first place. Again, the PC needs to be fair to all affected and it requires careful judgement. If there was a major screw-up affecting a number of boats, then resailing the heat may be the best option. But if only one boat was affected and they had a big lead and the conditions were stable, then awarding a fixed place, even first place points, may be appropriate. The old stand by of 'average points' may or may not be fair and that is part of the judgement to be exercised. John
  23. R 60 covers not just Protests, but also right to request Redress or action under R 69. The procedure to follow is the same - notify the Race Committee at the finish or soon after finishing, and file a request 'in writing' within the time limit. However be aware of R 62.1 which says A request for redress or a protest committee’s decision to consider redress shall be based on a claim or possibility that a boat’s score in a race or series has been or may be, through no fault of her own, made significantly worse by . . . I have underlined an important phrase - through no fault of her own. If you own actions contributed to making your finish worse, then you may fail in the request for redress. John
  24. File a 'Request for Redress' against the (improper) action of the Race Committee (R 62.1.a ) within the time limit. John
  25. John Ball


    Hi Barry, See IOM Class rule C4 - boat floating in fresh water. John
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