Darin Ballington

Is "course" a compass bearing? Our boats are both designed and trimmed to take into account small differences in wind shifts, which can mean that a "course" up a lake is a constant arc where the wind bends around the surroundings and shifts can lift the boat before the skipper can respond.

David, Agree with you on most of the points. The SSI's clearly state that the control area should be defined at the initial skippers briefing, it may be that there is no control area defined but not defining this can create a number of issues that can come back to "bite" the race team. sighting of marks, hailing of contacts etc are a couple, but also controlling the skippers and the general public can be an issue which setting a control area helps. I would always advise that there is a control area set as the PRO and host club are responsible for health and safety as well as the racing, and should there be an accident it may be that someone asks where the action was supposed to take place. This is alongside the points you have raised David. However, The control area is not only to keep skippers in a reasonable hailing distance, but also to control the safety and give fair and consistent sailing. Whilst most race teams will try to set courses that have good access/ visibility the use of a control area can make sure that physical ability is not an advantage/disadvantage by stopping the abler from scrambling over trees/rocks to get a better view. It can also be used at venues such as Eastbourne to define where any disabled skippers can sail safely. Personally, I feel that a race team who have set a control area will have at least thought of the racing and conditions. The briefing is often seen as the welcome and advising of the course, but it is more important than this and race teams should make sure they cover at least the items on the MYA SSI's, and skippers should make sure that they attend them promptly. I wouldn't agree with your E5.3 interpretation, I would like to think that the Line Judge would only call those boats that they are sure were OCS, and the use of a piece of clear plastic with a line makes this easier in some cases.

Unfortunately, the rule makers have interpreted that the penalty turns should continue until the significant advantage has been removed. The rule whilst clear in its wording is being interpreted differently; you can understand why, as a boat could quite easily come into a mark, cause carnage and then do two turns and be exonerated whilst the boats behind are still sorting themselves out. I understand that the rule was brought in to attempt to stop skippers diving in at marks, or barging in on port. Whether it actually makes any difference now is debatable, but at International events, it is used and gives skippers and race teams a mechanism to punish a boat that creates mayhem without the need for a lengthy protest. However, what constitutes significant advantage is very subjective and variable in its interpretation and at club level probably causes much debate. I often hear, "do another turn, you are ahead of me" but this may not be a significant advantage. With reference to the original post: 1. once the initial incident is resolved and the boat has completed its turns they are free to race - so no need to stay behind anyone. 2. the time to protest o the water would I suggest need to be reasonable, so if a stbd boat ducks a port boat to avoid a contact then this would be pretty much instantly, but if there was a contact going around a mark where boats were at a distance and difficult to identify clearly then a short pause is acceptable. Obviously, the on water protest has to be clear and correct and can then be followed up by a written protest after the race. 3. the first thing a protest committee will check is if a protest is valid and if a boat has not hailed the protest on the water they are not going to get very far 3. if there is a contact and you are not sure who is in the wrong, or it could be debatable then the conservative approach is to do a penalty turn yourself whilst also protesting any other parties. cheers Darin

Hi Tony, What you are perhaps gathering is that just as in flying, the choices are many and the decision very personal. If i was asked, I would suggest Futaba, but thats because its what i use, anything else feels odd and i have plenty of expensive receivers to use. Range/Function etc are not really important for radio sailing as almost all will do what you want; I personally use end point adjustment, but dont use Exponential. Others will work their transmitters differently. Depending on your boat design, perhaps the biggest danger is in fact the water itself..... Dropping a transmitter in the water, dropping yourself in the water, sailing without a transmitter mitt and water in the pot or boat are probably the biggest reason for transmitter/receiver failure and if you can avoid these the chances are that any equipment will last years. Worth giving Ken at Kbits a call if you have any doubts. Darin

Unfortunately Paul I think that the best way to stunt growth is to have a period of sustained cold weather, which we have not had for a few years now, but it would be good to try your suggestion in a small area to gauge success.

Great stuff Mike, it is important that the class owners have their say on this agreement. It is only a draft at this time for the owners to discuss prior to any implementation but the intention is that each class can have as much or as little help from the MYA council as it wishes; some may request that the agreement reflects their wish to be self sufficient, others may feel the need for support in many areas. Hopefully any agreement will allow the MYA to concentrate on provided the items that the members want to see. It would be fantastic if feedback were available to allow any alterations prior to the MYA AGM. Darin

Hi Ian, I think the system actually works in the opposite way. You get "placed" in a heat of mixed abilities for the majority of the event and then sail with these for 50-75% of the event, only being seeded at the end. So in theory you could be in a fleet of 10 boats where the newcomer is constantly sailing with a potential winner of the competition, which is probably going to be less encouraging than the current system where even a novice can get a good result in the lowest heat and be enthused by a bit of glory. I remember sailing a version of this system a couple of times at Bournville a while back and whilst it made the race management easier - just call the heats no need to think- and made the turn around quicker - it made the racing rather predictable and provided less of a challenge for those at the top whilst frustrtaing me - as the novice. I am not sure of the reasoning for the current push for SHRS but i see some issues that would need to be dealt with, and i suspect that when these are considered we would end up with HMS by another name.

HI Paul, The club list is the best place to start, I know that there are clubs around Oxford, Portishead, Gloucester and Cerney Wick but not sure which boats they sail. http://www.mya-uk-members.org.uk/clubs/club_list.asp?AC=NC cheers Darin

Charles, I have been at a few events with disabled skippers, mainly wheelchair bound, and the common approach has always been to assist them as required. Some require nominal assistance to launch boats, others have brought wives and family to do everything other than sail the boat. At all events the need for understanding and any restrictions to the control area have been announced at the briefing and all skippers have been cooperative. (Some monitoring has been in place as skippers get involved in the racing) The MYA would have to consider their approach if requested to, but i suspect that the fact that our sport requires is shore based means that any issued could be overcome with a bit of planning by the race teams. Darin

A couple of things to add - 1. Before choosing which class to get, find out what is being sailed locally - IOMs are sailed at most locations, but if you are tempted to go for another class it is worth checking who sails them and where. 2. There is a skill set to radio sailing, so having a good previous generation IOM will not be too big a handicap until you have acquired these skills. This is not just confined to the racing; handling and maintaining the boat is something to be learnt, no point in paying a lot money for the latest sails if you trash them rigging and de rigging, or put lots of gashes in the gelcoat because you are struggling with getting your thumbs to work in conjunction with your brain. Plenty of time for the latest and greatest once the buzz kicks in (and it will!)

Hi Ian, Agree with Graham, however dont forget that those at the top of the sport commit a lot of time in honing their racing skills and preparing their boats and any boat needs to be pointed in the right direction. Yes i would buy a BP as my "weapon of choice", but dont feel that its not worth competing with something else, attending big events is as much about meeting, learning and socialising as it is about the winning for most of us. Go on, get your entry in for the next Open meeting near you..... You dont mention what design you currently have, but maybe your gear list would help in planning upgrades. cheers

Rather than be put on a list wouldn't it be better to put the tech team findings on the forum or MYA website so that all skippers can see the results? I am sure there are many of "fringe" skippers who may be enticed to the class who wont be on any email lists!

Keith's post is the exact reason why the classes have to be give freedom to control their own destiny. The DF group have only been around for a short period and have created an association, got publicity and created racing events, Ok they have had a massive "leg up" in being able to copy from other classes and elements of the MYA structure, but they have done this whilst the MYA Council has been occupied debating with IRSA,trying to find a chairman, lost publicity, etc etc. Its no wonder their classes are showing growth when the IOM, M etc are trying to fight their way to the front of the MYA "to do" list. You would think that being a class within the MYA structure would be an advantage, but at this current time its a handicap to those who wish to use their enthusiasm to build these classes and we must change this. Others mention about "beware of what you wish" and i agree that there needs to be some degree of accountability and a base framework to ensure the sport and classes are represented fairly, but hey, we can make a boat miss another by mm's, turn on a sixpence and still shout starboard whilst being 50m away from the thing, surely we can figure out how to set up class groups that build our sport!

Hi Brad, agree with what you say, but not sure the large classes are the "cash cows" for the MYA you suggest, but introducing a class levy at events to cover the costs of class admin would be a good idea. The MYA levy was dropped but this could be brought back as a class levy on rankings and nationals for the larger classes and maybe in travellerbseries for smaller classes, again decided by the class.

Hi Mike, Would the class groups not decide their own structure? The IOM would need a larger organisation as it is an international class and has a large following but the classes with lower numbers may only need a couple of people to organise it. The MYA can still sit in the background for advice if the class wants help but only acting if requested. The Radio A is a great example, the PRACC series when I started was a great series sailed by the class enthusiasts, nothing to do with the MYA but took into account what the skippers liked and sought their views in an informal way by Dave and Linda Munro. It had no formal structure but the series kept the class alive and created pockets of interest, just as you and Peter are doing with the 6's. The MYA and international classes need a defined structure as that is the route they have taken but the other classes just need to have the "bases covered" so that their skippers can enjoy sailing them.

During this year there has been some discussion about the cut off period for International event qualification; currently set as 30 weeks prior to the 1st race of an International event. This period has been constant for a number of years and the general consensus is that it was brought in prior to modern communication methods and maybe it can be reviewed. The MYA ranking system is a rolling series of events from which the best 4 results are counted from 6 separate ranking events plus the last MYA National Championships, typically these are from March through to Oct with a calendar year generally being the qualification period. (although it may not be) The issue arises when the later ranking events (oct-Nov) may conflict with an early International event in the following year, say an early European event or a World Championship in the southern hemipshere. So what should the period be and why bring it up now? If the MYA regulations team are to be asked to change it, they need to have a request prior to the start of the 2017 season. International evenst qualification for 2017 is now completed - the current regulations are the ones being used - but if we want to change things for qualification status for 2018 events we need to have something in place prior to the 1st ranking events of 2017, and preferably early enough for people to plan their sailing for 2017. Anyone got any thoughts on whether the period needs amending and any proposals that can be sent to the MYA race Team? In my eyes this is a race team item and doesnt require a vote or motion at the AGM but does need to be put to the race team as a proposal from somewhere- preferably by those who attend events and will be impacted by the decision. My thoughts are that the qualification period can be dropped to 20 weeks - giving 4 months from the end of an MYA ranking to the start of an international event, although this could mean that an early ranking of one year could qualify for a late international event in the same year. Thoughts please?

GBR IOM Class Association Inside the MYA or a stand alone organisation. Discuss........

Lester, If IRSA sees a benefit to having a smaller class under its wing - which i dont disagree with- would it not be better to put out a "statement of interest" request, giving all the current (and proposed) classes a chance to put their class forward for consideration. These expressions of interests can then be considered and passed or rejected based on their ability or wish to comply with the IRSA ICA requirements. If the RG65 skippers do not want to adhere to IRSA requirements but IRSA pursue the process, are you not in danger of just splitting the skippers and class into International skippers and the rest, with in all likelihood the same international skipper being "pinched" from one of the existing international classes. Some could argue that the actions suggested are similar to the DF65, in that an existing class would be used to get into the "market" and then dumped when the new IRSA RG65 is up and running. Given that the IRSA constitutional role is to develop the sport, is it not better to do this with the skippers, not despite the skippers? As i said, i am certainly not against IRSA or the idea of a smaller international class - particularly as someone with kids! but the process needs to be a clear and fair one if IRSA is to be truly seen as the democratic governing body of the sport. cheers Darin

Hi James, Welcome to the forum, firstly great to hear that after an initial start you are thinking of upgrading. Eric has highlighted a few good points, but the most important is an understanding of what you want to do and your likely commitment in terms of both cash and time. The reason I say this is because so many skippers feel that they need to have the latest and greatest to improve, but then struggle to find the time to work on their "game" or maintain the kit. Remember it is the fact that there is a skill to learn that makes what we do a sport. Natural enthusiasm means that people end up collecting a variety of different boats when they start, some good, some bad, I know I did! The best piece of advice you can get is to buy a well built boat, made by a good builder with the right kit and stick with it for a couple of years whilst you learn. Expect to get a few battle scars on the way and end up with sails that look like the dog slept in them; it's all part of the process, but better to do this with a used boat than a brand new one. Also worth remembering that a decent secondhand boat will only have cost you a few quid per year when you come to upgrade further. So which design, as I say my advice would be to look at the package rather than the design, any of the boats by Sailsetc, BG, Barry Chisam, Phil Playle, Graham Elliott will have been built to the correct quality, and the Widget and Lintel from Dave Creed can be great if put together by the right person, but if pushed and not being bought to win a world championship, I would go for an Elliott Widget, or a Sailsetc Topiko, Pikanto as a step up from a base IOM, and maybe place an order for the next level boat ready to upgrade in 12-18 months. If you ask around you can normally find a quality boat with all the kit being offered by someone at a reasonable price. Until then just enjoy what you have and have fun learning on the way.

At the MYA AGM, Bill Green, MYA Race Officer said that he wanted to compile data on weed issues for clubs, primarily in his role as Race Officer it is to help the placing of events at the correct time of year for particular venues to reduce the effect of the dreaded, but if you have any thoughts, help or advice please contribute.

Well, the title says it all really.. Sailing at Fleetwood lake, course was full length of lake twice with finish 1/2 way up. Going up the beat approaching the 1st windward mark,black boat calls starboard on white boat, white boat wriggles, misjudges and there is contact in which both boats become entangled for about 30 secs- 1min (seemed longer when racing!) White acknowledges fault and does penalty turn.Both boats were in the top half of the fleet, after entanglement (on water without assistance) both boats are last by maybe 30 secs to a minute. Both boats continue on course and black boat catches up with pack on final beat (last leg of course). Black boat then collides with another boat (BB 2) with a port and starboard incident, Black acknowledges fault and does penalty turn, finishing penalty turn behind BB2, black boat then continues to finish. Observer then advise that black boat had finished in front of BB2 and claimed had gained advantage. (BB2 was demoted and black boat stayed up) BB2 skipper asked Black Boat skipper what he was going to do so Black boat skipper retired and BB2 stayed in A fleet. So, questions are: 1. Was Black boat entitled to redress for 1st incident or does the boat now have to be disabled to claim redress (other than protesting under rule 2 etc) 2. Can a boat who has subsequently retired after the race for a later incident claim redress for an earlier incident in the race or does the 2nd incident cancel out the 1st? 3. Significant advantage- does staying in a fleet over going down represent a significant advantage- implying that if its the last leg or near the finishing line and there is a contact between the back end of the fleet that any boat has to finish behind one that it has fouled, or does the significant advantage switch off once the appropriate penalty is taken? 4. Is it in the remit of an observer to state or note that there is an advantage, or it is up to the skipper to claim this? As you can tell it was a frenetic race for the black boat and he (me) probably got what he deserved (sorry Damian) Any thoughts??

John, Is there any time when a boat that is ocs at the start would be exonerated? Darin

Hi john. Try Members area / technical docs/ MYA docs As an MYA tech doc you will need to be logged in to view but you can find it without logging in. Hope this helps Darin

Thanks John B I think that we have all been in the situation where you cant believe that you are at the front and momentarily forget the course, so it is just as likely that the finish line crew can do the same thing, I have been at a few events where the over enthusiastic man with the whistle has blown up, only for the fleet to let him know he's got it wrong! Its just one of the pitfalls that can be there to trip up the race team and PRO. It is also good however to know the procedure should the skipper feel aggrieved as these are the kinds of situations that i find cause the most mumbling and lingering ill feeling at an event; just knowing as a race team that there is a process that they can advise the skipper to follow at least buys them a bit of breathing space to gather their collective thoughts and gives both sides the chance to give their views. Darin

John, I'm always confused by this, 1.Can you request redress without submitting a protest? 2.I thought that you can't protest the race committee? Probably being very dumb here but Peter's question is very interesting, particularly if you are part of the race team and the correct "practical" procedure would be great to know. Darin