On 01/04/2022 at 10:55, ianrmcdonald said:

I am very happy sailing Df65 and 95 so this " saga" does not affect me immediately. But I would like to have the possibility of returning to  the classes  requiring measurement in the future.

Am I safe to assume that the Mya has abandoned the plans for measurers to be required to have Rya training and verification?

I assume from the lack of response , I assume consideration of this matter is ongoing.

I would like to thank both MYA officers  and those just working within RC for all the ( often thankless  ) work you are doing for our hobby. 

I am sure it will all be resolved by the time I decide to buy another IOM!

This is a very interesting discussion I was a measurer for many years however I believe we are missing an opportunity. In my own club (Etherow) we do not have a measurer we have over 100 members 20+ sail yachts, mostly IOMs, Fiestas and an increasing number of DF65s. We struggle to get 6 members to join the MYA. To get a boat measured we would have to go usually to Birkenhead, Fleetwood or into Yorkshire, I have a couple of IOMs which have registered numbers but will never be measured  due to  distance etc and we have other IOMs that will never be measured officially (I wonder how many numbers are issued but no measurement certificate is ever submitted) I understand that there are numbers of unmeasured boats at Bury and Platt Fields clubs also.

For IOMs we all buy sails from recognised English sail makers and sail hulls that have been made to recognised designs. We have no tank to check draft  but we assume the draft from the plans and set up the boat on its design waterline, from that we can measure the total draft against the rules, we also use digital scales to check weight. The sails and rigging are easy to measure. My point being that there is no need to have special check weights, or to go on RYA courses for IOMs we only have one current member who attends district events but there is no encouragement for our members to take a wider part in district events, the MYA offers nothing to these people. We don't have any one prepared to become an official measurer and attend the RYA course.

Why can we not have a simplified system for club sailors who may occasionally attend  district  or open  events with the proviso that a full official measurement must be undertaken to attend Nationals etc. Does a 36 require an RYA course certificated measurer when the sail area isn't measured ? 

Steve Toulson

Hi Steve

I write this with tears rolling down my cheeks because you have got it spot on, in my view. What is the point in forcing club/casual/social sailors to get their boats measured by the same tortuous process as required (quite reasonably) for those wanting to race in National etc events? Talk about tail wagging dog! A two-tiered approach to both measuring/lack of it and indeed to the MYA itself seems appropriate - which will, with proper organisation, free up resources where they are really required and allow casual sailors to get on with enjoying their sailing. Of course there is nothing to stop a club check-measuring boats like IOMs to ensure fair competition as, after all, who measures a DF65 when its sails are replaced? Also, a club sailor who then wishes to enter a District or National event should expect to get his or her boat “officially” measured.

Paul

5 hours ago, Paulabrooks8 said:

Hi Steve

I write this with tears rolling down my cheeks because you have got it spot on, in my view. What is the point in forcing club/casual/social sailors to get their boats measured by the same tortuous process as required (quite reasonably) for those wanting to race in National etc events? Talk about tail wagging dog! A two-tiered approach to both measuring/lack of it and indeed to the MYA itself seems appropriate - which will, with proper organisation, free up resources where they are really required and allow casual sailors to get on with enjoying their sailing. Of course there is nothing to stop a club check-measuring boats like IOMs to ensure fair competition as, after all, who measures a DF65 when its sails are replaced? Also, a club sailor who then wishes to enter a District or National event should expect to get his or her boat “officially” measured.

Paul

Hi Paul/ Steve,

I think that a clubs rules re measurement are up to the club and its members, but I would be very wary of trying to introduce any two tier system.

I feel that the whole reason for the MYA's existence is to create racing of a common set of rules and regs across the UK and a sensible common approach to all aspects of racing encourages participation across the various districts and countries.

As to wait individuals consider sensible is unfortunatley variable .......

 

Darin

Quote

I feel that the whole reason for the MYA's existence is to create racing of a common set of rules and regs across the UK and a sensible common approach to all aspects of racing encourages participation across the various districts and countries.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will) but doesn't IRSA set the class rules (for the international classes at least) and World Sailing the Racing rules? I will freely admit to being thoroughly confused about the relationship and responsibilities between IRSA, RYA, MYA and the COGS (If and when they exist).  I looked on the MYA website under 'What we do' and was definitely none the wiser.  It is clear however that the MYA has a responsibility for the promotion of Radio Sailing within the UK and others have already expressed their views on how well they do that job,

The point about it being IRSA not the MYA is that the rules are set internationally not nationally, so I don't understand why the UK has measurer requirements that other countries do not.  If there are problems with the 'quality' of the measurement process in some countries then how does imposing stricter standards on just one country solve this?  

Maybe it's because I don't understand how it works but I'm struggling to see what the MYA does for my money and why they can impose requirements that don't exist in other countries.  I looked for a 'Mission Statement' or similar on the MYA website but couldn't find one.  What I did find was this:

Quote

The MYA is the National Authority for Radio and Free sailing in the UK and are affiliated to, and recognised by, the Royal Yachting Association and the International Radio Sailing Association (IRSA) providing direct links to World Sailing and enabling us to have influence on the rules governing our sport.

Enable 'us' to have influence on?  Shouldn't that be 'to promote the views of the members on'? Yes the MYA officers are elected by the members but there doesn't seem to be much consultation with the members taking place about these (and other) issues .  Even our beloved politicians would claim that they are elected to represent the views of ALL their constituents, not to pursue their own agendas.

It might help if someone representing the MYA issued a statement explaining why these measurer courses were considered necessary i.e. what problem are they trying to solve.  And also provide a justification that learning how to measure 'full size' sails will solve it.

On 18/05/2022 at 09:09, John949 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will) but doesn't IRSA set the class rules (for the international classes at least) and World Sailing the Racing rules? I will freely admit to being thoroughly confused about the relationship and responsibilities between IRSA, RYA, MYA and the COGS (If and when they exist).  I looked on the MYA website under 'What we do' and was definitely none the wiser.  It is clear however that the MYA has a responsibility for the promotion of Radio Sailing within the UK and others have already expressed their views on how well they do that job,

The point about it being IRSA not the MYA is that the rules are set internationally not nationally, so I don't understand why the UK has measurer requirements that other countries do not.  If there are problems with the 'quality' of the measurement process in some countries then how does imposing stricter standards on just one country solve this? 

Maybe my earlier post needs clarifying, but the role of the MYA is to allow skippers to race to a common set of rules across the UK. This may now be a little outdated but was the original reason for its formation as there were differing scoring and racing systems before and during its early formative years.

The common rules we use are the RRS and the Class rules (whether International, National, or one design), alongside MYA participation rules for the larger events.

 

On 18/05/2022 at 09:09, John949 said:

Enable 'us' to have influence on?  Shouldn't that be 'to promote the views of the members on'? Yes the MYA officers are elected by the members but there doesn't seem to be much consultation with the members taking place about these (and other) issues .  Even our beloved politicians would claim that they are elected to represent the views of ALL their constituents, not to pursue their own agendas.

The "Us" by the way is everyone as the we are all the MYA, not just the council.

Unfortunately I feel that whilst there are a small number of vocal volunteers, that the membership as a whole does not wish to get involved with the running of the sport and experience tells me that feedback is very difficult to obtain- maybe a list of vacant roles would help people to understand some of the difficulties.

 

Hi Darin

By a “list of vacant roles” you mean like the list that appears in the only communication method sent to all members - that is the Newsletter?! It’s quite hard to reach any other conclusion than that the members are apathetic to what’s needed to run the MYA as those members want it run. Sad really.

Paul

On 19/05/2022 at 22:32, Paulabrooks8 said:

Hi Darin

By a “list of vacant roles” you mean like the list that appears in the only communication method sent to all members - that is the Newsletter?! It’s quite hard to reach any other conclusion than that the members are apathetic to what’s needed to run the MYA as those members want it run. Sad really.

Pa

"Vacant roles" should be a separate Forum topic. However, some quick points before returning to "Ready signed sails":

"... the Newsletter" - haven't seen it for quite a while. Also, haven't seen it promoted recently via MYA website, Facebook, etc. Furthermore, communication with the members needs to be via multiple channels on a serious topic such as

"... the members are apathetic" - if we are to assume that members are apathetic, then we need to ask "Why?". If Districts are functioning effectively, then what is the source of the apathy? Some serious questions need to be asked by Council members of themselves to address this point and how they propose to engage and motivate the membership. Only then will members be interested in filling vacant roles.

"Sad really." - fully agree.

Now can we get back to the topic - measurement of sails and why the demotivating rigmarole of needing RYA certification of MYA Measurers when the MYA has been running modelling yachting for over one hundred years?