Richard98

Wow !!! this is suddenly so interesting. You are both correct, of course, concerning the design extremes and relative virtues; or not. I did consider Bentley, but that was the polar opposite of what I needed for something to suit the very light conditions that I usually sail in. Also the boat was built to a tight (very small) budget. My brief foray into the 10R class has stirred my interest in a boat that allows true performance with a fairly simple rule and, very important, not a lot of weight to cart around. The overhangs introduce huge scope for hull tuning since they are not tied to the simple WL formula as they must be designed to heel to an optimum WL; or sail flat in light winds well below hull speed. Aiming for the best of both worlds. These boats must be the most exciting class out there. Why on earth the class has not got a greater following is sad. I have built a few Mini40's and the same comment applies. Although to be fair you have to invest in at least two hulls there. Neither class has a useful web site or forum with any discussion (apart from the MYA here) The Mini40 only exists on Facebook and the British Model Multihull website has been out of use for ages. Nowhere to gather info or discuss two classes that should be generating more discussion than most, due to their many diverse performance characteristics. I would love to get my hands on a current design, but my Pof8 provides some fun sailing at least. I think I would go lighter ballast on longer fin, thereby reducing the displacement and all the consequent form drag. Appreciate that this may limit some venues. Measurement: As pointed out, should not really be a problem. Totally agree about WL being the most critical item WL. Tried various tricks short of getting into the water myself. I used bright tape with increments marked and then photographed, sort of nearly consistent. Even thought about the foil and battery mentioned. No tank though. Adding surfactant to the measurement tank would decrease the meniscus, but hey ! getting a bit chemical here. What about a floating gauge, sharpened to a point and pre set to the boats declared WL. Go/No Go. Could be used at the water side, if calm, and the draft subsequently measured. Thanks for your appreciative comment, Brad.

Another sail, this time with a taller, higher aspect 10R rig - thanks John for the sails. Still some area to add though. Richard

Hi Trevor, Carbon unidirectional (Uni) masts are very easily split. Carbon tows work and so do sleeves. I keep short lengths of woven epoxy carbon tubes for that purpose. A 14mm Uni mast sleeved with a 10mm long piece of 16mm woven, epoxied over the splits and wherever a fitting is placed; plus at the mast top where the backstay crane places a huge splitting load. Gooseneck, of course. Spreaders, shrouds etc etc. The sleeves are so easy and clean to fit and I resort to CF tows for the gooseneck. Injecting epoxy may make things worse; however no reason not to "wipe" epoxy where the splits extend beyond any sleeves. Lastly: some cheaper CF uni tubes are polyester bound and are not worth the trouble. Ensure any tubes are Epoxy bound, any decent supplier will confirm this. Good luck. Richard

Trevor, I briefly had an older Starkers that I "sorted" from a basket case. Nice boat and sort of wished I had kept it. However, back to your question. I fitted my usual "King Max" sail winch / servo together with a Hitec rudder servo in front of the sheet post. I fitted a moulding for the round hatch into the deck; quite easy to do since Starkers actually has very little in the way of deck and the flange of the moulding became the upper strut for the sheet post. Many use the RMG winch, which is much larger and heavier and seems to be often placed forward of the mast in IOM's; I have noted. This suggests that your answer may be more a question of weight distribution depending on the winch you select. The moment change around the centre of gravity is not going to be huge and the aft position would assist in preventing nose diving; but would need to be checked against maintaining the static waterline. Mods I made to my Starkers included changing the short ballast for a modern profile, so if this is on the agenda; any balance issues could be corrected here. Hope that helps and is based on my small Marblehead experience. Richard

Was asked what rig I was sailing with for that first sail. 1720 Luff with 520 foot; so quite small really. Sort of 6M size I suppose. Richard

Hello Eric. Dave is correct; It is self adhesive Dacron, available from all the MYA sail makers. Worth buying a large quantity because it is so useful. Richard

First sail, with a small rig. Perfectly balanced and seems very quick. Just need to get used to the length when tacking; compared to a One Metre. Looking forward to getting the full 1.08695 sq M rigged up. Richard

Flotation - Basin trials. Floated in my test tank; Hickling canal basin at the end of our road. Bang on the WL marks 1150mm - thanks Roger. Now to cobble together a rig and go sailing. Will be using a smallish 20250mm luff before I work out the allowable sail area, now I know the WL. Tested with 3.5Kg ballast, all electrics fitted and a dummy weight for the rig. Richard

Thank you for your interest, Eric and for your offer to sell me your Spook. I began building Roger Stollery's design last week and attach a picture of progress, so far. So I am not really looking for another boat any more. However, would be interested, as I'm sure others would be too, in details of your build and some pics if you felt like putting them up on the forum. Richard

Thanks Solent. Like you I was also confused. As you say; the length for the boat stated on the IRSA may be assumed to be an average for the class. Not certainly though. This was my worry when I started my build. definitely outside those tolerances or average dimensions. Still not 100% certain though since the IRSA site seems quite specific on the length between 1.3 - 1.8M and also a clear definition on sail area too. 0.9 - 1.1 sq M. I have also noticed another web site: ITCA which reflects more what I thought the class was. There is so little information on the class on the web sites and no forum discussion on the MYA site at all. I have read and digested the class rules and understand the rating formula; which I like. Just ploughing through the WS, IRSA, MYA and now ITCA to glean info seems a bit protracted. Anyway, looking forward to an exciting boat to sail.

Thanks Solent. I have familiarised myself with the class rules and it is the 10R formula that I particularly like, to produce an interesting boat. It is mainly the confusing information or none at all; that exists on the various class sites; particularly the one that limits the overall length. I am aiming for a WL of 1150 and have good ideas on the allowable rig that that will enable. I note your advice that overall length Is not a controlling measurement though and I am going for the GBR 10R class rule from the MYA class info here. I have the bits and pieces now and am starting the build. Will put some pics up as I go, if anyone is interested. Richard

Totally agree with those comments. I fitted a modern fin and bulb to both a Red Wine and an Image (same as Ikon) with significant improvement over the original. Not too difficult to do; just a bit of care filleting the fin into the square section finbox. The mast blocks solve the problem fitting a ram on a flat deck boat and they work well. What you end up with is the designers settings without needing to know anything about the rake angle. Some great older designs out there and so rewarding to bring "up to speed" literally. Just "discovered" the 10R class, but that is another story. Richard

Hi Michael. Red wIne is a great boat. Mast rake is adjusted by a set of blocks from Sails etc. They come in a set of three and they effectively provide the best rake settings for the rigs. No need to measure anything. Richard

Just familiarising myself with the 10R rating formula before building my boat. Seems not so complicated after all, until I looked at the web site for the two versions. The IRSA 10R web site states a length of 1.3 to 1.8M and a sail area 0.9 - 1.1 sq M. This seriously alters my concept of the boat since I am aiming outside both these parameters. I can find no reference to an over all length or sail area restriction in the 10R Class rules on the MYA pages here, and the rating formula make the class quite an exciting concept. Are these two different classes ? There seems little actual information about the boat on either web site. One is for the IRSA and the other GBR is WS IRSA. Do I need to join the WS, IRSA and / or MYA to race a 10R ? Sorry if this seems a silly question. Richard

Now have lines for "Pieces of Eight" thank you Roger. Looks a really interesting boat and was designed for the light flukey conditions that I sail in regularly. I will shortly start the build. I have changed my design requirements, as you may have noticed. The original long WL was to suit a potential foiling boat. I like the look of the 10R class so much that I have decided to go down the "class: route and will build a 10R accordingly I am looking for a max luff top suit, in useable condition , if any one has any spare sails they do not need. Will place a note on the "wanted" also.

Thanks Dave; have contacted the Round Pond and got some useful info. Also lots of info from Australia. Thanks also Ditton Dabler. Have been down the Marblehead route some time ago. My current interest in the 10R is to sail a boat with a really useful WL. The idea of the chined hull was to build something really quickly, not necessarily competitive. For example my last MIni40 centre hull only took a few days to knock together. Will follow up leads on other boats. Richard

Thanks John, looked like a short WL as you confirm; Enterprise analogy noted. What I need is a design with a long WL and, obviously narrow beam. Where can I find a list of boats and their characteristics ? Problem is that 10R's seem incredibly rare despite looking like a very interesting and exciting class. Not a sniff of any older design (not vintage I must add) hull for sale anywhere.

Thank you Tiggy_cat, had a look at those two. Both pretty heavy displacement hulls I'm afraid. Pieces of Eight looks about the sort of hull ; Thank you Shaun. Long and thin and easily adjusted from lines for a 4Kg all up weight. Will try to see if any lines are available.

Looking to build a 10R since there seem to be no second hand hulls around. I remember seeing a chined design on here some time ago, but can no longer find it. I know that this hull form is not necessarily the best, but I can cobble one together in a few days; as previously done for a foiling Mini40 not so long ago (now sold on) Also cheap as chips and light enough to come close to CF in that hull form. Can anyone point me in the direction of the lines for that chined 10R ?? I do remember that it was a well known designer. Richard

Agree with you there John. I did put a few M's together with a specific request to make them dual rated. I tried a 10R rig on the M and was impressed with the "upgrade" Obviously not going to compete with the 10R hull in a wind, but boy; did it go. I also briefly tried a 10R rig on my Starkers and, once again, it was like adding a supercharger. GB beat the 10R's with the Paradox in light winds, so could almost come down to where you sail. Richard

Thanks John and Eric. I am looking at CR2020, which I assume must be more up to date than the 2018 issue. So the max fin length , with ballast attached, is 660mm then the hull draft is added giving a draught of >700mm. That sort of equates to the 10R for the purposes of dual rating and is what I will aim for. When I built Paradoxes the draught was a mere 600mm. Thinking ahead to next project. Richard

When I had my Marblehead I was aware that, despite having a very long fin, newer boats were even longer. Therefore I could not expect to compete with them, except in light winds. My fin was already too deep for our main sailing venue and these considerations led to me selling the boat. What is the maximum draft allowed ? Measurement rule C5.2 only refers to a gauge with no indication as to what size it should be. Just curious really.

Back on the water and I have realised that I love these big boats. So many different considerations compared to the full waterline, slimmer boats. I now have a B rig and I attach pictures for comparison. Some will recognise the origin of this B rig. That gives me 1.0sq M and 0.6 sq M respectively on the same luff length of 1720mm. I realise that the boat is way too stiff and have reduced the ballast to 5Kg, which brings the overall weight to <8kg. The A rig brings the boat up to hull speed very quickly and it needs to heel to bring in the free additional waterline provided by the overhangs. Hence the ballast reduction Changing down to the B rig takes 2 minutes and is soooooo easy with the shroudless rig. Therefore the boat remains in its speed groove better. I anticipate an IOM B rig as the C rig for this boat and this combination should see it sailing consistently within its "sweet spot" Also going to reduce the trim tab area a bit more, although I have still not been able to evaluate it against another boat yet. The boat draws considerable attention due to its impressive size and is proving a joy to sail Richard

Assume you back up to the water and launch off that ramp with the boat on a trolley. Neat. Richard

I can confirm that what Brad recommends does work. I used his settings for standing rigging and bent the mast accordingly. Then a little trial and error with the ram and shrouds produced the desired result. Boat "Alternative" Brad Gibson, Sails BG. Can only reiterate that pre bend is essential and will not necessarily be the same values for different sailmakers sails and rig set up. Richard