My question is 2 fold really.

If I finish and I am recorded as being finished but inadvertently sail back on the course side and go back through the finish line,  1st. Which position will I be recorded in the race, ie the first crossing or the second crossing ? 2nd carrying on from that I then sail down the line and hit one of the finishing bouys do I need to do a turn ? And for reference what would be the Rule No for both 1 and 2 .

Many Thanks

You don't need to cross the line completely, any part of the hull touching the line counts for your position, you can then cross completely forwards or backwards (Rule 28.1)  after which point you can no longer be penalised  for hitting the buoy ( as I understand it)  Rules: Part 2 Preamble & 24.1 

I'm just reading this from an up to date book, I'm not an "expert"

Thanks John, I was hoping for clarity on going back through the finish line a second time and then hitting the finish bouy!

Hi Dorian,

you may find my web site article Chapter 6 The Finish helpful.

https://sites.google.com/site/johnsrcsailingrulesandtactics/

As in the above replies, you finished when you first touched the line from the course side as long as you were not coming back to comply with R 28 Sailing the Course, or to refinish after completing a penalty.

See the definition of Finish. Also look through the quiz in Chapter 6, especially the ones labeled Case 4 and case 6.

John

Hi Dorian,

 

I have a simple solution to this.  As you cross the line, KEEP SAILING !!  so that there is no possibility of any problems.  

 

I've lost count of the number of events when I've had my head in my hands at the finish line with problems caused by boats bearing away and sailing back through the fleet !

So keep sailing!!

 

Derek

Thanks John, I did look at your site prior to posting just for further clarification, and yes chapter 6 was the closest to my question. Many thanks. Dorian

Thanks Derek

Good Call !

Dorian

Check the definition of “Racing”, although you may have finished when you cross the line, you are still racing until you clear the line. 

Seen & understood !

Thanks Darin

Dorian 

On 05/10/2023 at 08:26, Derek Priestley said:

Hi Dorian,

I have a simple solution to this.  As you cross the line, KEEP SAILING !!  so that there is no possibility of any problems.  

I've lost count of the number of events when I've had my head in my hands at the finish line with problems caused by boats bearing away and sailing back through the fleet !

So keep sailing!!

Derek

Agreed, Derek!! And bear in mind that the Finish Line angst can then multiply 10-fold for the poor b^ggers subsequently trying to do the Fleet Board....

Very light winds. My boat has ghosted over the line and number called. Some seconds later my stern drifts onto the finish bouy !  Have i finished ??

Hi Tom,

Have you cleared the line yet - ie yes but drifted back - or no- still on line and drifted sideways?

John

stern has not cleared the line 

 

4 minutes ago, Tom Roberts said:

stern has not cleared the line 

 

Are you suggesting/querying that your number was called therefore you assumed you had fully finished? From my point of view, when on Finish Line duty, the 'calling of number' is for the person writing it down, not for the skipper. I may be incorrect there - but maybe an interesting question of interpretation/expectation...

10 minutes ago, Tom Roberts said:

stern has not cleared the line 

 

Hi Tom,

then it sounds like you have not finished (see definition of Finish especially (b)) and need to do a penalty turn for breaking R 31 and refinish.

John

What i am trying to clarify is, have i contacted a mark of the course or did i cease to be racing once my bow crossed the line along the course side of the finish line ?

 

Hi Tom

from your description, my take is that you are still 'racing' as you hit the mark before clearing the line. So you broke R 31 and need to complete a penalty before crossing the line completely from the course side to finish correctly.

See my web site Chapter 6 The Finish and see quiz item #5

https://sites.google.com/site/johnsrcsailingrulesandtactics/

John

Edited March 25, 20251 yr by John Ball
added reference

So, back also with ref to Dorian's original question: going back thru line and fouling a finishing mark (or another boat still racing) is a penalty if you've not cleared the line, but is ok (albeit antisocial!!) if you have?

Semi-related question: race 'officials' are not obliged to tell you you've not correctly finished and that you need to re-finish...? 

Hi Colin,

If you have cleared the finish line and sail back and hit a mark, you are probably ok - just dumb! But if you sail back into the course and interfere with a boat still racing, you must take a penalty, and as you cannot now take a penalty turn, your penalty is to retire.

Race officials are there to record the finish - it is the skipper's responsibility to sail the course and finish correctly.

John

 

11 minutes ago, John Ball said:

if you sail back into the course and interfere with a boat still racing, you must take a penalty, and as you cannot now take a penalty turn, your penalty is to retire.

 

Thats an interesting n useful postscript. I've been clattered by someone who'd fully finished, and it cost me several places. They apologised profusely, but didn't retire. (To be semi-fair, at our club racing its the first two skippers who do the finishing, and he was one of them hence a bit distracted. Even so, I wasn't too chuffed...)

11 hours ago, Colin Helliwell said:

Thats an interesting n useful postscript. I've been clattered by someone who'd fully finished, and it cost me several places. They apologised profusely, but didn't retire. (To be semi-fair, at our club racing its the first two skippers who do the finishing, and he was one of them hence a bit distracted. Even so, I wasn't too chuffed...)

The “norm” is that if you interfere with a boat still racing after you finish, you retire.

Obviously at club level this varies depending on circumstances.

16 hours ago, Tom Roberts said:

Very light winds. My boat has ghosted over the line and number called. Some seconds later my stern drifts onto the finish bouy !  Have i finished ??

You initially finished when when any part of of the hull crossed the finishing line from the course side (Definition). You are racing until you clear the finishing line and marks.(Definition). This means until no part of the hull, crew or equipment is on the line and no mark is influencing your choice of course (Case 127)

You touched a finishing mark while racing and broke RRS 31. This means that:

- you have not finished (Definition)

- you should immediately get well clear of other boats and promptly take a One Turn Penalty (RRS E4.3)

- you can take the penalty anywhere (preferably not on the course area if other boats are coming in to finish)

- you must return completely to the course side of the line before finishing (RRS 44.2)

-

OK, thanks for confirming what I thought to be  correct . I reckon what we now have clear is to finish and get out of the way ASAP!!

Interesting thought --- it means the 'race' course is from the start line to  to the finish line plus 1 boatlength ??

 

Thanks for all the constructive comments 

 

Tom Roberts