I’m trying to identify a boat for a mate. I’ve been told it’s an early Toy Abel design. It’s got a glass hull (so not Woodpecker), ply deck , it’s not a skiff type open transom or a vertical flat transom, it slopes forward so it’s oval but flat at deck level. Any ideas?

Thank you.

 

Not without pictures. Could be anything. 

T

That’s the best I’ve got. Any ideas?? That sail number has been reallocated to a 2001 yacht.

Edited September 13, 20241 yr by SimonCornes

I remember that one of his IOM designs was called Swallow. There were also the Cygnet and the Mallard. Finding pics is difficult though.

 

Edited September 18, 20241 yr by tiggy_cat
further info

5 hours ago, tiggy_cat said:

I remember that one of his IOM designs was called Swallow. There were also the Cygnet and the Mallard. Finding pics is difficult though.

 

Yes, Martin Roberts mentioned that all his One Metres were named after birds. As you say though, photos of each design seem to be hard to come by. Back in those days I can remember the Alex Austin 'Bubbles' being a popular design but I can't think what it looked like! There seems to be quite a strong desire to get older One Metre designs back onto the water as a cheaper way of finding competitive sailing and indeed that was the original idea of the One Metre class as you know. And now you may have to pay £4,000 for a brand new boat, hardly cheap and cheerful! Even £1,500 for an Alioth is not a cheap way into the sport. My regular racing machine is either a DF65 or 95 as they are certainly priced to be affordable but I'm not sure how durable they are compared to an old One Metre! 

27 minutes ago, SimonCornes said:

Yes, Martin Roberts mentioned that all his One Metres were named after birds. As you say though, photos of each design seem to be hard to come by. Back in those days I can remember the Alex Austin 'Bubbles' being a popular design but I can't think what it looked like! There seems to be quite a strong desire to get older One Metre designs back onto the water as a cheaper way of finding competitive sailing and indeed that was the original idea of the One Metre class as you know. And now you may have to pay £4,000 for a brand new boat, hardly cheap and cheerful! Even £1,500 for an Alioth is not a cheap way into the sport. My regular racing machine is either a DF65 or 95 as they are certainly priced to be affordable but I'm not sure how durable they are compared to an old One Metre! 

As you say Simon, the IOM class was once conceived as a "cheap" class, hence ali mast instead of carbon fibre which was deemed too expensive. Pity the class hasn't stayed that way.  I do have a rather nice mould for making Ellipsis hulls which I obtained from my recently departed chum , Geoff Raygada. He used to sell very nicely moulded hulls made from it (with the proviso that you paid Frank Russell his designer fee) . Within my club there is an interest in IOM's but the price puts people off. We are discussing producing the Ellipsis for club members and sailing them as a "club level"  with a specification that should see them produced at a reasonable cost. We currently sail Wee Nips with a Bermuda rig , as well as DF95's.   

 

Edited September 18, 20241 yr by tiggy_cat

Yes, if I recall the French objected to the aluminium only masts because carbon was cheaper than aluminium in France. But at least we got carbon foils after the initial foray with laminated timber although carbon foils, if supplied with ballast fitted, are not cheap these days. There must be an awful lot of old IOM's sitting around in sheds and lofts these days and, as with the Ellipsis, they all tend to sail pretty well so thats a pity. 

17 hours ago, SimonCornes said:

. But at least we got carbon foils after the initial foray with laminated timber although carbon foils, if supplied with ballast fitted, are not cheap these days. There must be an awful lot of old IOM's sitting around in sheds and lofts these days and, as with the Ellipsis, they all tend to sail pretty well so thats a pity. 

For a lot of the older design IOM's that need a refurb to get sailing again, I am not sure that carbon foils are an economic proposition, especially if the boats are to be sailed at club level. I obtained a 10R from Geoff Raygarda sometime ago, and he supplied it with a wooden fin wrapped in some sort of composite cloth. For such a long fin, it is extremely stiff and not overly heavy. I would be quite happy to sail an IOM with a similarly built fin and rudder to get it on the water at reasonable expense. I suppose it really comes down to how and where you intend to campaign the boat and at what level you want to be competitive.

 

23 minutes ago, tiggy_cat said:

For a lot of the older design IOM's that need a refurb to get sailing again, I am not sure that carbon foils are an economic proposition, especially if the boats are to be sailed at club level. I obtained a 10R from Geoff Raygarda sometime ago, and he supplied it with a wooden fin wrapped in some sort of composite cloth. For such a long fin, it is extremely stiff and not overly heavy. I would be quite happy to sail an IOM with a similarly built fin and rudder to get it on the water at reasonable expense. I suppose it really comes down to how and where you intend to campaign the boat and at what level you want to be competitive.

 

Yes, I totally agree, stick with wooden foils if thats how it was built. I think I meant in my original comment that when carbon fibre came along it wasn't that expensive as part of the overall cost of building and outfitting a boat but it was a matter of refining the overall class rule. I suppose you can get hold of a fin and ballast for £100 or so and maybe another £15 for a rudder but part of the charm of operating an old boat is to sail it as it was originally built. Lovely 10R by the way! 

On 18/09/2024 at 17:46, tiggy_cat said:

 Within my club there is an interest in IOM's but the price puts people off. We are discussing producing the Ellipsis for club members and sailing them as a "club level"  with a specification that should see them produced at a reasonable cost. We currently sail Wee Nips with a Bermuda rig , as well as DF95's.   

 

Are the specifications going to be made available to all? Preferably before I start building my new IOM.

GARY

1 hour ago, Gary Dickens said:

Are the specifications going to be made available to all? Preferably before I start building my new IOM.

GARY

If and when we ever come up with some.

I see that Frank Russell has also done a hard chine version of Ellipsis - Paperclip Mk 3- this year by the looks of it, the plan for which costs 20 $ Australian and is predominantly made from 1mm ply. His write up suggests that it also goes well but I see that Ellipsis hulls cost 800 $ Australian which is definitely not cheap so I hope you have a cunning plan!!

Well spotted!...Paperclip is the boat I'm about to commence building! I got the plans last week and have sent them to get the ply panels laser cut. My even cunninger plan is to get the same panels cut to 65% which will give me panels for a rg65 as well (with appropriate royalty paid to Frank for the second build of course)....

Gary

 

 

Edited September 20, 20241 yr by Gary Dickens
Misspell

I wonder if it really goes as well as he says?? Hopefully you’ll let us know! My idea of a hard chine hull is a Woodpecker or Rag Time so it will be interesting to see what a Paperclip looks like!!

Hi Simon, I still have a catalogue from when i bought a Tony Abel boat in 1996. I will scan it to see if it is in there. I have just restored the boat I bought that was sitting in the box for 28 years. Some of the IOM designs that he built were Cygnet, Mallard, Swallow and mine that was a Mandarin. I might be wrong but I suspect its pre 1996 as he was using carbon fins and rudders by then, but it was the choice of the purchaser. Either way I will look when I get home at the weekend. In regards to performance is it as fast as modern boats .. no. But it is a great way to learn how the rigs work there and sailing techniques you need before moving up. The fast boys only need to make a mistake..............

Take care

Mark

Thank you Mark

Sorry Simon, I totally forgot I will look at this when i get home this weekend.

Take care

Mark

Hi Simon , dont know if this helps but here is that Tony Abel brochure from 1996. I may be wrong but take a look at the Cygnet on page 5, it does look very similar. Even if it doesnt help its a good read with the prices and design of kit back then.

Take care

Mark

Tony Abel Brochure.pdf

Thank you Mark, I’ll see if I can print off a hard copy and do a proper comparison . You’re right though, it does make interesting reading though!

If the PDF doesn't print well let me know and I can send jpegs or a word doc.

Mark 

Thank you Mark, I’ll let you know,

Simon

3 hours ago, Mark Nicoll said:

If the PDF doesn't print well let me know and I can send jpegs or a word doc.

Mark 

I think it will do Mark, thank you very much. I'm not sure if our 'mysterious' 597 is one of his though - might be a Cygnet having said that.

Though this topic is going back a little bit, I have just bought an unbuilt Abel "Mallard" kit from the infamous on line auction site. Intend to complete it with the wooden fin and rudder supplied. Will see about the rigging,

 

 

Looks quite crude by what we expect now but I see you've got a rig in there, presumably top suit so I'm sure it will be great when built!