Colin Helliwell

I was in touch with rcyachts today (about the new rudder arm). He pointed me straight away to the V3 95 upgrades. Which also include an updated winch: "a more consistent performance and end point accuracy". Not sure that would explain a twitch if your stick is staying in same place, but I reckon any wobble or grime - which could include lurking water - could cause that. I notice mine doesn't always sheet out-in-out-in to the same place. (Mine isn't v3) DF's are very decent boats for the price, and great racing. But for the price they're not equipped to 'RMG' level....

Even in amongst-the-action forms of sailing, let alone 30yd-away-rc, that could be quite an ask for the windward to be able to be aware of who the leeward initiator/culprit was? Our sailing: distance and angles. Or dinghy/keelboat: windward boat is likely to be needing to see through a bunch of sails and even hulls? Judges etc probably even less likely to have eyes on the timeline of such a situation occurring, somewhere/anywhere on the line? None seem practical or feasible to me....

Half a dozen or so boats manoeuvring towards the line. The leeward one luffs to protect position. Knock-on effect causes the windward of the pack to be pushed into the mark. Who should call protest, and upon whom? Do they need to be so aware as to know who was the most leeward who started the chain reaction? Or is it a protest submission/hearing etc from each of them....?

At club level I reckon its very likely to be at least one of those. Whereby the apology and a 'just in case it was my fault' spin is best for bonhomie and a pleasant morning

That's certainly a mantra I'm trying to adopt. Even tho I can't be the fastest, staying out of trouble can also be fruitful

And I'm actually not that bothered about big events - I'm too shy. This kind of mark/bank carnage must be more likely at club-level - skippers might be new to sailing, or inexperienced in rc boats. There will always be a huge difference across club skippers' experience and knowledge (if not then we're failing to bring in new blood....!) but tortuous rules that can't be passed down and explained can result in tetchy 'discussions' and atmosphere...

Purely in Devils Advocate mode - not because I have a silver bullet solution lol: what about at the business end of an event? Infringing boat might take sufficient turns to stay in the heat/fleet position they should have been, but as a by product the infringed boat itself ends up losing place(s)? On 2nd sentence: so what does the rule actually say? Your comments noted and agreed with re. whats actually visible and accurately judgeable in our sport/hobby. But as with much of life, if a 'law' can't be fairly assessed, judged, and the penalty applied, then is it thereby a bit worthless and causing more difficulties than it solves....? (Sail GP, AC and F1 have the advantages of huge data, and still sometimes can't be conclusive!)

Crikey, that's a meaning that hadn't even occurred to me! In hindsight - thanks John - I guess that's what the 'relative to fleet' aspect is getting at?

Cue Lester, I suspect! (And others, I imagine). I recall he touched on this at the IOM Nats briefing. The "Call Book" covers this - probably clearly, but when I got to the final paragraph, I was no longer sure! As you say, something that just explains the broad intent would probably help cement the context of the more formal definitions. Pile ups at a mark are where I think it may often come into play - e.g. a port tack clatterer who causes mayhem, boats who were quietly on starboard and playing nicely ending up being put about, into irons, missing mark etc.

That outlines several more layers of bureaucracy.... 🙄 But I'll try to digest and learn something from the the book nonetheless 🙂

What's the background to, or purpose of, the 'call books'? Advice on how an umpire is expected to adjudicate the situations, or a more clear (?!) explanation of the rules, or....?

I used https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BHSR5R5H?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_9&th=1

Recently got mine back from Bill. Yep, they seem to often be quite noisy things anyway, but at least mine doesn't now sound 'in pain'!

I was thinking similar about the Polish chap at the Europeans with the black sails.....

I had a past iom with the hooky wire rings - disadvantage I found was they'd tend to snag on my (woolen) gloves 😄

Something I don't yet have in the toolbox is thread for mainsail luff ties. What type and size/strength do people use (for IOM/DF)?

I typically don't 'like' the idea of ending up too far above lay line. But with this thread highlighting things about the long-range reality of our sport, I'm realising/remembering that that isn't always a bad thing: overstand a little, and stay out of trouble. Even being RoW can be a moot point if you put yourself somewhere where you might get taken out. (Aside from total chancers/lunatics, perhaps) 'Less [ambition]' can work out being more...? Of course the hyper-competitors will be seeking every inch of advantage. But in my case I reckon there's greater chance of me stuffing my race with a penalty/collision/stall - especially when I'm not the one shouting loudest - than by giving away a boat length... 🙃

And at least one was 'outline' red. Certainly not to the advantage of the event crew.

Sorry, I dragged that a bit off-topic there - straying into hms scoring rather than the sailing rules. But yes (and spot the bloke - me - who sails only local Sunday club racing lol), fleet dsq +1 seems disproportionate.

And in fact U/Black flag starts are probably - albeit less specific to indivual(s) - in that same general vein?

Apologies for not taking the time to research myself lol, but do any classes have rules for the 'style' on numbering? I.e. 5s and 2s having curves to them. Consider "55" in digits with right angle corners, and the same by "22"..... Obviously its dictated which side has the number placed higher, but people on finishing lines in the heat of the moment need every help in getting the job instinctively done right. Heights and sizes may be stipulated, but what about 'shape'?

That's a good example. I'm sure we can all grasp the intent of this, but wow, so many words to attempt to cover all scenarios. I think there was a case along those lines today - one skipper pointing out that the infringer at the mark did their turn yet was still ahead at the start of the next leg. At club level everything is, I hope, less fractious.... but even an a Nats there's just a few Event officials, plus Observers drawn from the fleet. No well-staffed and independent jury, no video replay. Yes at some level it does have to become [a hobby which to some is something] more serious, but few skippers want a 30min delay with protest hearings. I guess that's the contradictory nature of 'amateur competition'? (I would just add tho that today's DF65 fleet at LRSC was all pretty good-natured and fair-minded. And a cracking breeze too 🙂)

Yep. And what we do have is a bunch of participants who are all individuals. (Well, except for me 😄) I can recall many of the incidents you cite there. And I'm also aware that some people have it their make-up to be more bullish in their view of an incident: He/she who shouts loudest and/or first seems to - instinctively, even if not consciously - seize on an opportunity to push the other skipper into backing down. Especially if the latter is less experienced, or of a less confrontational temperament. Yet might actually be the one in the right.... Sadly an over-fuelled sense of, let's call it just 'gamesmanship'...., can spoil things for the majority who simply enjoy getting out and sailing. As with all kinds of clubs, sailing, sporting or otherwise - where will the clubs end up if the 'grass roots' members get turned off....?

Thats an interesting n useful postscript. I've been clattered by someone who'd fully finished, and it cost me several places. They apologised profusely, but didn't retire. (To be semi-fair, at our club racing its the first two skippers who do the finishing, and he was one of them hence a bit distracted. Even so, I wasn't too chuffed...)

So, back also with ref to Dorian's original question: going back thru line and fouling a finishing mark (or another boat still racing) is a penalty if you've not cleared the line, but is ok (albeit antisocial!!) if you have? Semi-related question: race 'officials' are not obliged to tell you you've not correctly finished and that you need to re-finish...?