May the black flag be shown, or declared to be showing, at any time before a start or must there be a number of general recalls first. In other words, can the black be declarred to be in operation before any starting attempts are made or must there have been a set number of recalls before the OOD declares that the black flag rule will be operated at the next attempt to start.

Edited April 27Apr 27 by Terry Connell
text error

The likes of John B will have an answer. But I'd have thought that the Race Officer is free to deploy it whenever they like? It might be a bit fearful or nervous on Race 1 Heat 1 - depending on who the skippers are lol - but it'd probably be within both RRS and a typical SI?

How soon it can be raised before a particular start might be a deeper question.

Edited April 27Apr 27 by Colin Helliwell

HI Terry,

There is no rule restricting when to deploy either 30.3 (U flag) or 30.4 (Black Flag). except that it must be shown prior to the 2 minute warning. This is to give time to boats on the course to get out of the 'forward triangle' before the Warning when the boats are 'racing'.

My comment would be to prefer the use of 30.3 U Flag - it has the same effect as Black Flag, but allows any OCS boats back into the heat if there is yet another general recall.

John

Edited April 27Apr 27 by John Ball
added comment

On a side note, and sorry if it's off-topic: I think there's been views in the past about whether [HMS] BFD/DSQ in a Heat should score "Heat boats +1" or "Race boats +1".

Anyone know if this discussion has been 'evolved'..?

As far as I know in HMS, any DSQ is Fleet plus 1 except the seeding race.

See HSM 3.3 and 3.4

HSM 3,4(d) says

(d) Boats recorded as DNC in the lowest heat and WDN, UFD, BFD, DSQ or DNE in any heat, shall score one more point than the last boat in the lowest heat would have scored if all the boats competing in the event had finished correctly.

However if a boat is DSQ for black flag, and there is a general recall, and the boat starts in that restart, then the BFD is upgraded to DNE (non-droppable).

John

Edited April 27Apr 27 by John Ball
added comment

Yep - always struck me as harsh/disproportionate

Also see the discussion in this topic

https://www.mya-uk.org.uk/forums/topic/4366-u-flag-and-black-flag-starts-and-world-sailing-case-140-an-issue-for-radio-sailing/?do=getNewComment

John

I try to avoid using rules 30.3 & 4 if at all possible but if you're up against a time restraint i.e. no race will start after 18.00 and you have A fleet having multiple general recalls, sometimes you as RO have no other choice to get the race off.

The problem sometimes is, if a boat misjudges their approach and is early they will bear away to avoid crossing the line at the risk of fouling another boat to leeward ruining their start also, but crucially avoiding dsq.

So, rules 30.3 & 4 should be viewed as "last resort" as RO when you're confident that the line is correct and you've tried everything else.

The IRSA Race Management Policies state:

General Recall

8.1In case of any problems with the starting line (such as length, or angle to the wind,etc.) a postponement may be signalled, even up to the last second before the start, instead of a general recall.

8.2 If a race management error is discovered after the starting signal (e.g. timing), the course management team may abandon the race. In these circumstances, the course management team will not signal a general recall.

8.3 When the course management team is not satisfied that all boats over early (or that have broken rules 30.1, 30.3 or 30.4) have been identified, a general recall will be signalled.

8.4 In the event the start has been postponed, or a general recall has been caused by the length or angle of the starting line, the course management team will adjust the starting line and make another attempt using the same preparatory signal.

8.5 If the course management team is satisfied that a general recall was not the result of the length or angle of the starting line or a course management team action, it will signal the use of a rule 30 starting penalty (I flag, U flag or black flag) for each subsequent attempt to start the heat

8.6 An important principle to be followed by the course management team is that rule 30 starting penalties will only be used when general recalls are caused by the boats themselves, or rapid oscillations of the wind, and not by actions of the course management team.

8.7 When using the black flag, the course management team will make every effort to signal a postponement in the event of any problems with the starting line.

These policies closely mirror those of WS.