RMG winch queries

[SimonCornes]

I have just acquired a one metre boat with an RMG winch fitted . When I power it up it plays a ‘trill’ then a ‘bleep’. What does this mean? I don’t have any instructions! Is enquiries@smartwinch.co.uk still the right address for Bill Green? I got it from the 2022 MYA yearbook!!

Thanks 

Simon

[John Ball]

The sound signal is probably the low battery warning - eg if the battery was previously set with a LiPo and you plug in a LiFe or other chemistry, the voltage will be lower than the warning threshold. EIiher use LiPo or reprogram the voltage setting.

To figure out which model RMG, there should be a sticker on the  motor case. with that info you can download the correct instruction set.

John

[John949]

All RMGs make a 'trill' noise when they power up.  They then sound 1 beep per 3 seconds until the winch receives a valid PPM signal from the Rx.  The other noises it can make include 'low battery' and 'overload'.  You need to determine the exact model of RMG you have in order to correctly identify these noises.  Start here:

https://www.rmgsailwinch.com.au/rmg/pages/UserGuide-J.html#11 3

The above is for the latest J models but gives an overview of the features that may be found on the earlier models.

To determine which model you have use this:

https://www.rmgsailwinch.com.au/rmg/pages/How-To-Program-a-SmartWinch.html

It's up to you whether you program the winch for your boat or set it to default simply use the transmitter features instead.  Be aware that if you limit the travel by programming the winch then you will not be able to trim past these positions with the transmitter.  If you set the winch travel to slightly more than you actually use then why bother setting it at all?

Some of the later ones have a battery type setting (and I wish they didn't).  You need to get this right as you risk the winch going into it's failsafe position when there is still plenty of life in your battery.  LiPo & LiFe use a common setting NiMH has to be set lower (I believe the winch can auto-detect how many NiMH cells you are using but assumes 2 cell LiPo / LiFe.

In days gone by when Tx /Rx were analogue devices with little scope for adjustment then it made sense to have adjustable settings and failsafe positions within the winch.  Today all these setting can be set easier and faster in the transmitter (what's the point of a low voltage beep if you have telemetry on your Rx?).  I also think a hard failsafe is a bad idea.  I know not everyone agrees with me on this but I find setting up an RMG a pain, particularly if it needs changing lakeside.  The number of posts on this forum suggests I'm not the only one who can't remember exactly what the various beeps and sounds mean, so how useful are they?

 

[SimonCornes]

Thank you guys. I must admit that Im in the 'keep it simple' camp with all of these clever devices and Id rather set sheet travel via my transmitter settings and be told by that if it thinks my RX pack is low, ie it's near the limit I've set. 

Being an RMG winch all I can see is the drum so I might have to whip off a patch to see if I can find an ID but I'd really be better off if I had a boroscope or endoscope I could inspect it with!! And no visible 'set up lead', at least not visible yet anyway!.

So the balls in my court to identify which particular breed of RMG this is then I might try to get hold of Bill Green. I wish things were simple! Im using NiMh cells to power it, at least initially as I have the packs with my DF65 and 95 although I use 2000mAh NiMh cells with my old One Metre boat but I don't want anything going into 'fail-safe' mode prematurely!

Edited June 6 by SimonCornes

[HotTub]

Also are you powering it through the RX or direct to the winch as I believe the latter allows it to draw more power if required. Think there is a connection diagram on here search for RMG hopefully you can find it. Telemetry RMG is where you'll find this.

Edited June 6 by HotTub
More information

[SimonCornes]

30 minutes ago, HotTub said:

Also are you powering it through the RX or direct to the winch as I believe the latter allows it to draw more power if required. Think there is a connection diagram on here search for RMG hopefully you can find it. Telemetry RMG is where you'll find this.

It’s connected to the battery and then powering the receiver and rudder. I’m trying to identify which version and I’m tempted to say one of the D’s because it bleeps for 10 seconds so possibly a D revision. 2. The snag I have though is that the winch is not moving at all when powered up. Of course it’s very inaccessible but I’ve looked at it with a small mirror and the motor can has red trim and it say RMG Sailwinch ‘Smartwinch’ . 
At some point an external switch was connected but both wires have been cut. I don’t know if it’s an RMG switch but it has a rubber ‘boot’ covering it on the deck. I’ve left a message for Bill Green to phone me back so imagine he’ll know exactly what it is from the tune it plays!

Ive been powering it with a NiMh 6v pack but that’s now charging again - when the voltage dropped the winch started making a noise again so I think it basically works but doesn’t seem to want to talk to my Radiolink AT9 system!!

[SimonCornes]

Another thing, looking at the instructions on line and using the links John949 provided I think it might be a type D because it bleeps 10 times so maybe a Type D revision 2? But the instructions talk about pushing a button when setting the winch up. Where’s the button? This winch is fitted below the deck with just the drum above deck so, as the winch isn’t responding to the transmitter stick moving I’m wondering what to do next! Haven’t heard from Bill G yet of course.

[John949]

You should be able to identify it by listening to the tune examples on the RMG web-site.  If nothing happens when you click on them try a different browser (I think Explorer works but Chrome doesn't)

When the instructions refer to the 'switch' it means an RMG smartswitch (i.e. an additional external device).  If you haven't got one of these then you have to do it by switching the winch on and off.  If it really is a D (which seems unlikely as they are very old) then it may not be possible to program it with a 2.4GHz radio (the explanation is on the RMG website.)

Does the rudder work?  If so, try plugging the winch into the rudder channel instead of the rudder servo.  If it still doesn't work then it will need to come out and further investigated.

You could also try turning the drum by hand with it powered on.  If it moves and stays where you turned it to, then the winch is not getting a PPM signal from your RX.  If it fights you and returns to the original position, then the radio is not changing the PPM value when you move the stick. 

[SimonCornes]

It’s making a sort of three note ‘trill’ followed by a dull bleep which it repeats. If I plug it into the rudder channel it’s the same but is a constant bleep at the servo central position. In no case can I turn the winch but the servo works normally. At one point an external toggle switch must have been connected but isn’t now- the cut wires are hanging into the bottom of the boat.

The boat came complete with a FlySky IA6B rx which is the current one I think so it aught to be fine with a 2.4Ghz system. 
 

Sadly it sounds like extraction is required so that probably means pot out otherwise how the devil do you do it?!! 
Im in Stoke so not a million miles from Bill Greens Brummigeham!! 

Edited June 6 by SimonCornes

[John949]

Sounds like a seized motor (quite common if neglected).  If you can't turn the winch drum with the power off this pretty much confirms it.  The motor is pretty easy to replace and only a few pounds (from China).  Problem is that they have been superseded by brushless ones and are getting harder to find.  

A D model will work with a 2.4 GHz radio, you just can't easily get it into programming mode with one.  It's just possible that the switch you mention was fitted for just that purpose i.e. someone put a switch in the winch signal line (usually yellow wire); in which case the two ends should be connected together!

[SimonCornes]

Thanks John, the fact that the boat hasn’t allegedly sailed for two years yet had half a cup full of water in the hull has also started to make me think of some sort of seizure - I was thinking gears actually- but it’s only a Mabuchi motor so, yes , I can imagine that corroding. The only answer is to whip it out, thereby confirming which type it is and giving a better idea of condition. Looks like the pot will have to come out but that’s maybe not a bad thing either. Then in the post to Uncle Bill - who I’m scheduled to speak to this afternoon!! But being RMG it isn’t a write off and will live again, although at what cost, who can say?!!! 

[Darin Ballington]

Hi Simon,

What is the design?

Does it need the pot out to change winch?

 

[SimonCornes]

6 hours ago, Darin Ballington said:

Hi Simon,

What is the design?

Does it need the pot out to change winch?

 

Darin,

It’s an RMG winch and, having spoken to Bill Green I’ve removed the pot and got the winch out. It’s a D280. To be honest, externally everything looks okay and corrosion free but I’m sending it to Bill for him to give it the once over. The only obvious ‘issues’ are that the the battery lead has been cut in two places and rejoined by twisting the wires together and wrapping then in black insulating tape and effectively removing the toggle on-off switch. Not pretty, especially as the tape glue has turned to tacky mush! But power wasn’t really a problem. I can’t see where any kind of push button would have gone for setting travel limits and such like but I just hope Bill can bring it back to life at not too great a cost. I’ll get it posted tomorrow then we’ll know! 
 

[SimonCornes]

On 07/06/2024 at 19:21, SimonCornes said:

Darin,

It’s an RMG winch and, having spoken to Bill Green I’ve removed the pot and got the winch out. It’s a D280. To be honest, externally everything looks okay and corrosion free but I’m sending it to Bill for him to give it the once over. The only obvious ‘issues’ are that the the battery lead has been cut in two places and rejoined by twisting the wires together and wrapping then in black insulating tape and effectively removing the toggle on-off switch. Not pretty, especially as the tape glue has turned to tacky mush! But power wasn’t really a problem. I can’t see where any kind of push button would have gone for setting travel limits and such like but I just hope Bill can bring it back to life at not too great a cost. I’ll get it posted tomorrow then we’ll know! 
 

Bill put a new motor in and it works beautifully now. He reckons it was a combination of it being pretty old - I don't know when the D model came out - plus sitting in a sealed hull with half a cup full of water in it for two years! But it works now and thankfully it didn't need a pot as well. Bill did a great job and turned it around very quickly. I sailed the boat today and it all works as advertised!