Twin winch set up

[Val Provoost]

I have two As with twin winches. The first boat was working but because the winches received power via the receiver, they were very slow. I coupled up a bettery with a Y lead directly to the winches and all they do is sit there chattering and occasionally running in and out. The 40mHz computer Futaba radio has been converted to a twin stick and I also tried them with the Navy14, none of which made any difference. The second boat is doing the same thing with the Y lead coupled up. Since no-one has written a Dummies book for this problem and I am no electronics expert I could do with some help please

[Mike Ewart]

Hi Val,

I have a working set up with twin whirlwinds on an A the battery is connected to the twinned BEC circuits on the winches and the winch signal leads go back to channel 1 and channel 4 on the receiver, this works with the twin stick arrangement I have. I am planning to convert to 2.4 ghz with the same sort of idea but using a mix from channel 1 to channel 4 on a spektrum dx6 (new type) not yet working but see the answer that David A gave me on this forum. Hope this helps

[John Hanton]

Hi Val, Not familiar with this idea but maybe a bit more information is required, what are the winches? Do they have seperate battery and receiver leads? Does the reciever have it's own power or is it fed by BEC from one of the winches? With the Winches powered from your Hi Power battery they would still need signal and ground connections to the receiver for control. Perhaps someone who uses this idea could post a diagram.

regards,

john

[Val Provoost]

To clarify a bit. The winches on both boats are Graupner Regatta (the real ones, not the current ones), I used a Y lead to connect the battery to the two bec leads from the winches and the signal leads are plugged in to the receiver. On the Sweet originally the bec leads were not used, the battery was plugged in to the fourth channel (thus limiting the voltage availableto the winches) and while it worked, albeit slowly, each time you used Ch1 for the rudder,the main boom ran out and then in. I tried the Navy14 because I have the correct receiver for that radio while the Futaba has a 4 channel receiver not listed as being truly compatible with the radio. IN either case the system simply doesnt work.

[Val Provoost]

Further clarifcation, The battery is plugged into the power leads (not bec leads) leaving the winch to supply power to the receiver

[Mike Ewart]

Val

I believe on some set ups you need to cut the red wire on one of the BEC leads not sure why but that is what I have been advised, the BEC leads on the whirlwinds are the only leads apart from the signal leads, never used a graupner regatta so a bit in the dark hope someone with real knowledge will help you soon

[Guest]

Twin Winch For Dummies as requested. Originally published by BadSkipper about 4 year ago on the other website in response to a question you raised.......

You do not NEEEED to cut one of the Red wires as shown but you can if you want to. The BEC supply is not used in the Winch itself.

Rather than Cut the Red wires, it is quite easy to use a pin to release the clip on the plug and to slide the Red wire out of the plug. You can then put it back later if you change your mind or use the winch on another boat.

It make no difference if it is a Graupner or Whirlwind of even a RMG , the BEC circuits are all the same, a shunt regulator.

It you want a High Voltage Rudder there is Option B

I do hope that this is of help .....it does work and was used on an 1500 boat I had using Graupner Regatta and a Whirlwind.

Badskipper

Winch.pdf

[Val Provoost]

Just to clarify, that's the red wire going to the receiver (otherwise I guess it would affect the battery supply).

[Guest]

See revised drawing - The Red wire/s with the cloud/s around them.

I hope this is clear enough and of some use.

Channel Numbers will/may vary depending upon the Transmitter Type used and the Mode setup/selected Mode 1 or 2. The channels number shown are typical of a Spectrum DX61 Mode 2

The Mixer setup is Mixer 1

Mix 1 -> 4

Set the ratio / Gain to + 100%

Set INH to ACT

Badskipper

http://www.mya-uk-forum.org.uk/phpBB3/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif

Winch A.pdf

[John Hanton]

Thanks Dave, First class diagrams, I agree that the winch BEC outputs should be equal and run in parallel but would be inclined to remove one red lead. As an aside which may or may not be applicable I was recently given two regatta winches for investigation / possible repair which no longer function when powered via the battery input but work perfectly when powered by the receiver lead.

regards,

John

[Guest]

Ok - Why would you want to remove one of the BEC...

These are monolithic series regulators and the current cannot reverse while the collector voltage ( Battery) exceeds the emitter voltage (+5V ) i.e. they simply block.

In some applications it is common to run two monolithic series regulators in parallel to achieve a higher output power.

In our context a Rudder Servo being pumped will exceed most single regulators capacity - and so continuous rudder pumping could /will kill the regulator particularly if a LiPo is being used because the junction dissipation is exceed but perhaps not the junction average current.

With respect to your Regatta Winches. I would not believe they are working perfectly - probably are turning , achieving a set-point but slowly. A long time since I did anything with a Regatta, the Whirlwind is identical by the way..

But from memory you will find a largish surface mounted diode somewhere near the place where the Positive power lead comes onto the board - Test it on the board - it is probably dead.

Problem is that it is, will everything else, surface mounted and getting it off the board is a bit of a fuss. The trick is to carefully crush it with a pair of cutters then de-solder each end separately.

You could run without it ...it is there to save us from the old Sanwa standard which was opposite to the current standard. It also acts as a fuse in case any of the FET's in the H bridge fail. Without it the thing could/would catch fire and the boat might be lost at sea with all hands as it were in a most spectacular fashion.

I would sincerely doubt if you could even get an equivalent Diode - your only point of call being RS or Maplins and you will need to buy 10 at least.

Oh whilst I am thinking about it I think Val's Winch is also broken in this way as well -- The slow running and no guts is the clue.

[John Hanton]

Thanks Dave, if it's not an issue probably a good idea to run the regatta BEC in tandem on a large installation and the low volts current output is vey low. The faulty ones I have are in the hands of someone who can see SMD components but even he is having trouble finding how the battery volts get to the regulator and motor fets, they have no power switches but there is an extra three core lead with two wires soldered together and one insulated which is probably where a switch may have been installed. Have yet to find any wiring information or diagrams seems the manuacturers have managed to keep it all pretty secret.

regards,

John

[Val Provoost]

Well, after a lot of messing around a 'correct' receiver was found and I plugged everything in as per diagram 1. Nothing! Zip! Nada! I kicked the furniture a bit and retired to watch some rubbish on TV with my wineglass. Next try involved Bob giving it large about never, ever, using two winches and making useless suggestions like, 'why not settle for one winch'. As I am on some new medication that exhausts me every time I move and Bob has a cold and so has lost the remaining 30% of his hearing,picture the scene of two adults shouting at each other in the kitchen (well it is warm there and so is the kettle) over a red Sweet occupying the sofa when neither of them can really communicate. After further investigation I reverted to the original set up with the battery plugged in to the receiver. Bingo! it all worked including the original problem of having the mainboomswing in and out every time you used the rudder. But as soon as I plugged the battery into the Y lead , Zip! etc all over again.

For those reading this who have never used the excellent Regatta 1 winch, they have several wires issuing from them. First there is the bec lead that goes to the receiver(male futaba plug, red/brown/ orange = +/-/signal), then there is a battery lead (female futaba plug, red/black or brown/orange, as above) and then there are two wires both in the three colours for fitting a switch so no plug.

Now I know logic says that if you wish to bypass this and have no switch surely you should connect red and brown/black and complete the circuit. Obviously I wasnt the only person to think that as this is exactly what has been done here. Bob came in from the shed bringing another Regatta with him and lo and behold you have to couple the red to the orange (+ to signal). A bit of hasty work with the nail scissors and wirecutters and the right wires twisted together and BINGO! its all working. PLease also remember that this boat has been sailing with this lash-up as part ofa training programme for one of the Olympic squad in Holland

So all my Belgian friends, waiting patiently to try an A and also Match Racing will only have to wait now till the temperature gets above freezing and I feel a bit better. Now to tackle the V-Tail side of things and learn some more!

And to all of you,thanks for the help and support with my problems, particularly Dave Alston and his excellent diagrams. Not such a Baaadskipper then!!

[John Hanton]

Well done Val, glad you got them working, pretty sure the Regatta's I looked at only had one three core switch wire, perhaps someone could post switch bypass diagram/s, does seem that something that ought to be simple is a bit trickier.

regards,

John.

[Val Provoost]

Yes, confusing isnt it?. Two plugless three wire leads and no clues as to what to do with them. As above, split the wires,join red to orange and leave the brown isolated. I wouldnt cut themoff altogether in case you use the winch again and need to fit a switch.

[Val Provoost]

Overcome with my success, I muddied the water a bit. It is, of course only one switch lead coming fromthe winch. Two winches = 2 leads. Today would have been lovely for trying them out but b****y shopping came first.First New Year resolution, Must get my priorities clear.

[John Hanton]

Thanks Val,

A friend has confirmed:-

My notes on the JR Regatta B.Nr 5172 were obtained by trial and error:-

Winch to operate when battery is connected to Winch requires the Switch to short red to orange, to switch the winch off the switch connects red to brown.

Winch to operate when battery is connected to Receiver requires the Switch to short red to brown, to switch the winch off the switch connects red to orange.

So in my configuration with battery to winch I solder red to orange and unplug the battery to switch the system off.

No problem with the switch in situ but if it's removed the appropriate wires have to be joined for the chosen supply.

Good luck with the Mixing,

John.

[Val Provoost]

Thanks John, that will join assorted scraps in my 'problem solving' file for future reference. Sailing, the best sport in the world! You never stop learning.

[Guest]

Here It is Roger

Thank you for keeping the 11 tradition alive ...but I will be returning to 11 soon.

Dave