Me and the wife have been to watch a couple of Radio Sailing events this year at a pond nearby and really enjoy watching and having a picnic on the bank. I am an ardent reader of John Ball posts regarding Rules.

But perhaps we seem to have missed something

Going around a mark the INSIDE boat has right of way to the extent of rounding a mark and the OUTSIDE boat must give it MARK ROOM. Yes?

And subtly different KEEP CLEAR to the extent of rounding the Mark since the inside boat has RIGHT of WAY although 18 makes NO mention of KEEPING CLEAR. The issue of WINDWARD And LEEWARD is not relevant.

Is it correct to assume that the INSIDE boat must sail a course around the mark and not suddenly sail away from it, needlessly turn outward, this not being PROPER COURSE ?.

And only has RIGHT OF WAY to the extent of MARK ROOM

When looking at the definitions in the Rule Book and the rule ( 18) the OUTSIDE boat must KEEP CLEAR of the INSIDE boat not the converse.

Does the OUTSIDE boat determine how much space the INSIDE boat needs to round that mark. ?

So why does one hear the call ‘ How much room do you need ? ‘

Is it because the inside boat has ROOM to round the mark and the OUTSIDE BOAT ( now Leeward Boat) is NOT required to KEEP CLEAR in terms of Rule 11 ?

But who determines HOW tight a boat can turn … they are all differently set up and speed may influence this.

Great questions. What you are asking about is the difference between Proper Course, Mark Room and Right of Way.

I suggest that you go to my web site

https://sites.google.com/site/johnsrcsailingrulesandtactics/

and read Chapter 8 which covers these topics in detail.

Here is an extract

Right of Way vs. Mark Room vs. Proper Course

Before discussing Proper Course, the first thing to get our heads around is the difference between having Right of Way (ROW), having Mark Room, and sailing your Proper Course.

If you have ROW, the other boat must Keep Clear. However, if you are entitled to Mark Room, then even a ROW boat must allow you enough room to round the mark AND with Mark Room, if your Proper Course from your current position would be to sail close to the mark, that room includes room for you to sail close to the mark.

John

John,

Thank you for your response.

Close to the mark is a little subjective don't you think

Is Close - within 1 boat length or 4 boat lengths between the Mark and the boat ?

Before the OUTSIDE and now LEEWARD BOAT can force the boat to windward or exercise his rights / status of ROW boat.

Close to the mark is subjective. It is to allow for a variety of conditions - in full sized boats sailing around a big government navigation buoy is different from sailing around an inflated mark, and is different for strong winds and big waves, or flat water and light winds. So it may be taken to mean sufficient space to round safely without hitting the mark with any part of the hull, sails or rigging, including room for the boom to gybe if a gybe is required. In RC sailing, the mark may be some distance away and depth perception is involved. So a subjective term is better than a hard number.

My opinion is that if the inside keep clear boat with mark room is taking more than one boat length, then they are being greedy.

If the outside ROW boat thinks the inside keep-clear boat with mark room is taking too much room, she can protest. That is much safer than causing a contact. If there is a protest with no contact, then the protesting boat may win the protest, or it may be dismissed. But if there is contact, one boat will be disqualified, and it might be the outside ROW boat.

John

Again John thank you,

The point of the discussion is just that, a discussion , not a regurgitation of a rule for that is pointless.

It would be nice to hear from others and their opinion.

The one obvious failing that is that evidence will be conflicting since:-

1/ Observer/s rarely see the entire incident and

2/ Observers will seldom take the time to note the positions as the situation develops.

3/ Each skippers view will be that the other was in the wrong.

That is if there even is an observer or if he/ she wanted to see it.

We went to watch an event on Sunday

This time the course was set for Starboard Rounding.

Now that was interesting to say the least.

In summary

If two or more boats were approaching on Port Tack then they totally ignored the Starboard Tack approaching boat .