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Bill Green

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Posts posted by Bill Green

  1. Gareth. The QBL has significant impact on sail area so you can’t ignore it. If you can get the boat “in racing trim” ie:- on the right waterline as the design then you shouldn’t have a problem with sail area. However, I need to say it’s not just the right waterline length it’s sitting on the design waterline. That should bring all the dimensions into the right ball park. 
     
    On  Serica, by the sound of it, the displacement calcs were either screwed up or more likely the builders either pushed or pulled the beam to alter the displacement, or both. This  will significantly alter the displacement and result in what you saw, but a 2” discrepancy is a lot. Also the shape of the hull may not be to the design and again this will have an affect. 
     

    Bill

  2. If we are being strict about this,  if the boat has had a certificate issued in the dim distant past then the hull can be remeasured to the rule applicable at the time of certificate issue.  The certificate records will indicate whether one was issued or not. That’s called Grandfather Rights, however the rig has to comply with the current rule. If it has not been certified then it has to be measured to the current rule. There is absolutely no reason why the boat cannot be measured to the new rule however the boat does need to be in compliance with it. In your case it will need a compliant bumper, there is no depth requirement for the bumper only for it to project the required amount. 
     

    Official stance over, let’s deal with the practicalities  You are not going to sail Phaedra in a National Championship are you?  so there is no need to get it measured .  If you are going to sailing it in a “fun” event, then if the organisers are happy with you not having a bumper or as suggested a nominal bumper then as Derek says ”crack on”. If you are aiming to sail it in a MYA sanctioned event then it will require a certificate  

    I hope that clears things up for you

    All the best


    Bill Green

    A Class Registrar

  3. To All UK A Class Skippers
     
    PRACC 2021
     
    You don’t need me to tell you what a difficult year 2020 has been not only in our personal lives but the changes it has brought to society in general, as that famous saying has it “it aint over yet”. Sailing RA class yachts is not exempt from that either. The MYA has been looking in depth at what would have been 2020’s national racing calendar and has come to the same conclusion as most of us. In that there were too many events in a fixed period if time. Also, now with all that’s going on the emphasis has got to be in building up club sailing. Along with other classes that have long established series we have been asked to see if the series can be slimmed down. In the view of Peter, Mike and myself we needed to discuss this with our members and the clubs that have supported us before we make any changes. However, given the current circumstances that has just not been possible. As a class we have seen diminishing numbers sailing in the PRACC series to the point where its hardly viable to hold an event. That indicates action needs to be taken to halt that trend and turn things around, the request from the MYA has just brought that change evermore to the fore. The PRACC Series has been going a long time and in a radio sailing world now dominated by other classes PRACC is the only real place that we can enjoy sailing these boats in a competitive environment. There are not many clubs that hold club events for A Class either so that opportunity to sail is further challenged and that can’t be good for the class. So that’s picture, what are we suggesting?
     
    Let’s look the PRACC series. There are a couple of options to consider but the only way it can be slimmed down is for the number of events to be reduced, so if we are to retain the PRACC Series what we are suggesting is that instead of single day events as now, we have a 2 day weekend event with two races and that there are 4 events in the year, Southern, South Western, Midlands and North, plus the National. Because our skippers are spread about England, we are suggesting that there is an event in the South West, in the South, Midlands and North. The National in 2021 is at Manor Park in October. That gives 8 PRACC races and the National. We have to weave into this as well, the Vets Nat, MD, SW and ND Champs but these can be coupled into suitable weekend events. As they are on a full weekend it makes turning up more worthwhile but also allows some skippers to pitch in for a day if it suits them. The model is very similar to IOM and M Ranking events. 
     
    The dates for your diaries are:-
     

    Hampton Court on 17/18 April, 
    Bournville on 26/27 June, inc MD Champ
    Askern on 4/5 September inc Vets Championship
    National at Manor Park on 9/10 October 
    Poole on 23/24 October  
     
    Now that leaves a few clubs that have been staunch supporters of the PRACC series like Gosport, Eastbourne, Fleetwood and Woodspring without an event and our intent is to rotate the venues around in subsequent year’s so everyone has a fair crack of the whip. So, what can be done in the meantime, well we suggest that those clubs that have regular RA racing that they treat one of those events as an Open or a District Championship. That gives an opportunity to those outside of your club to sample the delights of your hospitality and to keep RA sailing alive in the clubs. Both of which are very important to the health of the class. 
    I know it sounds like we are imposing a significant change, but something has to move if we want the class to build and succeed. Please, do let us know if you have any better suggestions because we genuinely do want to hear from you. Its your enjoyment and your boats so please talk to us.  As we have said in previous notes to you, don’t forget the Classic Class is now part of the equation as well. I know that there are several on the go, so let’s see them on the water. In the next piece we will set down what we consider is defined as a Classic.
     
    Please keep safe and hopefully see you soon
     
    Bill Green
    RA Class Captain
  4. John. No reason not to. You need to ask yourself the question would the gain you make to windward by pointing higher out way the reduced off wind performance. As the majority of a radio course is off wind then the swing A rig will come out best over the course.  That’s why the fleet uses swing rigs for A suit. When wind gets stiffer the conventional rigs work better across the range. You may have seen that swing rigs are set more forward in the hull that increases the tendency to push the bow down and fir the boat to trip up and the wind speed increases. The conventional rig is far easier to handle in higher wind speeds

    In the vane M era shroudless A rig was used as it allowed the top of the rig to bend off in a gust and good windward performance is at a premium. We used a prodder rig where the jib boom is attached to a yard clipped to the mast and the hull. It was effective but as it made it more difficult to catch the boat and pick it out so the fleet went back to conventional arrangements

    I hope that helps if you need anything further give me a ring. My contact details are on the SmartWinch supplier banner

    Bill

  5. Richard, to add to Mikes last posting, both my current 6’s, which both date back to the ‘80’s and all previous other 6’s of mine have had a fin box and removable fin/ballast. Both of my 6’s are currently competitive, if I can get to start a race without breaking anything that is. That’s a separate tale. The main area where performance gain can be made is in changes and alterations to the appendages. You can’t make those changes easily if the fin is fixed. Obviuously the choice is yours. I understand that yours may be an old boat but when we get back to sailing again there is no reason why you can’t compete. We introduced a classic class to the RA fleet and there is no reason  why a similar approach with 6’s. could not be taken. There are an awful lot of Dolphins out there gathering dust and they should be out there doing what hey were designed for which is competing. Model racing yachts are what they say on the tin. 

  6. Richard. That’s a very difficult question to answer there are many variables   For instance one design maybe 15kg of displacement with 1500sq ins of sail area. And another may be 12 Kg with 1300. Both would be equally competitive. The rule is very good providing an equal competitive basis for  all backed up with measurement. If you want to see what the full rig is like I suggest that you down load the class rule from the MYA website and take a look at the drawings. That should give you a clue and if you need an explanation you can always give me a ring. My contact details are on the SmartWinch supplier banner

    Cheers

     Bill Green

  7. Martin.  Please have another look at the manual provided the every new RMG winch and you will see that setup is a two stage process. The first stage is to calibrate the winch to transmitter by knowing what is the full extent of the stick movement. This is a process applicable to the set up of all electronic speed controllers. The second stage of set up is to set the travel distance from the sheeted in position. Once set it remains unless you want to reset up the winch.   You can use the transmitter settings as you suggest but that requires knowledge of the transmitter settings that vary from each maker. It inevitably takes longer to use the transmitter settings. The winch setup can be further used for additional features such as SLT that is similar but not the same as Expotential.  It goes without saying that a lot of care and effort went into creating the setup process and into simplifying it’s use before releasing it  

    I hope that helps and if you need further please feel free to contact me. My details are on the SmartWinch UK supplier banner. 
     

    Cheers.  Bill

  8. You have my phone number on the SmartWinch banner on this site . Give me a ring and I’ll talk you through it. It’s easy, in set up you are doing two things, first you are calibrating your winch to the transmitter so the winch knows what the full extent of the stick movement is and secondly you are setting the travel distance you want. You can also do this through transmitter settings but it’s quicker, easier and repeatable by doing it through the winch.

    Bill

  9. I may have a vested interest being a supplier of RMG products but I’d be a bit wary of using a servo  based winch in an A Class. PJ have an adapted servo based winch that can be used and have been well tried and tested  Maybe ok with an IOM and similar but worth second thoughts for anything that has a decent amount of sail. As ever you can always ring me if you want to have an unbiased talk about winch things. My advert regularly pops up on these pages (Smartwinch)

  10. Dave, the answer to your question is simple, there ain’t any. It’s a piece of kit that has got to do a job and there are many and various types. They come in all shapes and sizes dependent on what you are using it in. Little ones for 36’s, big ones for A’s and anything in between. Roger Stollery published his design and you can ask him for a copy. The Clem Edwards ones are very accurate and easy to use but are like rocking horse p*** to find. Ken Jones made an effective one out of wire and again examples are hard to find. The there are the Fred Shepherd ones, moving carriages, and the Corby’s and there are of course the one offs and variations on a theme. A Vane gear is a piece of kit that you get used to, foibles and all, you will learn what it can and can’t do. The one thing for certain is that when you find one you can get on with you hang onto it and you enter into a deep meaningful relationship with it. You don't lend it out, you look after it and tend to it’s every need. Sorry I can’t point you in any other direction but if you are a good boy I’ll show you mine next time you’re down at Bournville. Now theres an offer that’s difficult to refuse.

  11. Mark

    At this moment in time there is no radio match racing for any class. Match racing is used by the free sailing folk as it is the only viable format for that form of racing. In the past the Race of Champions had a mix of Fleet and Match Racing but the event has not been held for a couple of years. At one time Match Racing under radio was feature of the embryonic 6m class as a means of expanding the class but there is no longer any need for it and as such is not in play. I have long advocated the inclusion of Match Racing into the racing calendar but there does not seem to be a will from either the classes or the majority of the competitors to want to include or participate in match racing.

    Bill

  12. This was received from Val Provoost and I was asked to post it here by Anthony

    Hello Tony,

    I got the thread on the Forum and ploughed my way through it. I have already had conversations with Bill and Peter over quite a time so I amwell acquainted with the problem.

    However there are several aspects of the whole postings from you as well as Bill and I see that some of the fundamental facts quoted are not correct .

    Forgive me for embarking on a long text here but I really feel that the whole sport is changing rapidly and if we are not spot on in dealing with IRSA now we will be left with a total dog's breakfast and deep divisions in the class.

    I will assume that you dont know my background so here is a short CV. I am a registered and qualified measurer forthe Royal Yachting Association and have been measuring since 1965 in several classes. As well as measuring at RYA events, I was an International Measurer for two International classes for 9 years and as the Chief measurers wife for a further 9 years.. WE were collectively called Ted the Tape and Val the Mate. After Ted died in 1987 I was doing the events, particularly the junior Champs, working with the olympic Squad members before the Games and measuring the Metre boats, 5.5,6,8 and 12m on top of all the general measurement work. Fo the 505 class I used to go to the annual meeting and present the class's rule changes for ratification. So you can understand why I can view this situation from a different perspective to most model sailors.

    In Bill's introductory comments in his post he refers to the relative responsibilities of the class assoc and IRSA but I dont think he is absolutely right. While he is right in defining the responsibilities of the ICA he misses the point that the ICA is an autonomous body that is effectively run by the owners, for the owners. IRSA becomes an enabling body that ensures that things are done inaccord with the World Sailing norm. The owners run the show and the only involvement of IRSA is to oversee that proceedural matters are done correctly,such as appropriate and competent venues forchampionships, racing rule appendicees are appropriate, etc, etc. As to the rules, it is entirely down the the ICA and it's members what rules they want and how they create them. IRA is only required to ratify them and the only changes they can advise is over perhaps rewording a sentence here and there and grammatical errors.

    As to the questions raised in Bill and your postings

    1. An A boat is an A boat regardless of whether it is vane or radio

    2. If they want any control over their future as vane sailors then a united class with an ICA is vital and stops any enforcement of rules that they do not want. At present the 2016 rule is in force but the ICA could create a later rule and get it ratified by IRSA.

    By the way the class is no longer 'International' as it does not meet the World sailing requirement of having fleets on 3+ continents. Now it is 'Classic'.

    FAQ

    1.Now the rules themselves. Any boat built and presented for measurement since the rule came into force must be measured to it. However the ICA wouldhave the power to change the rule and get it ratified.

    2. Both IRSA and the ICA would effectively shut the door on the Vanes and I think that would be a death knell.

    3. Strength in numbers is always the best course of action and anyway,

    how can you amalagamate with a body you are already part of???

    4. The 'new' rules will only affect new boats. Old boats are measured to the rules in force at the time of build. Only any new rigs must comform. There is no question of grandfathering. I have a 1932 Vane A and if I choose to get her measured then I will insist that the rules in force at that time are used. I will also be seeking a set of healthy young men and a chiropractor to pick her up!

    The rest of the quesions are well covered in the posting. The move to form an ICA is absolutely correct and the only way forward and should include both disciplines. The ICA will hold the class's future in its hands and IRSA will no longer be able to enforce any rulechanges.

    I take the stand that the owners, being the investors in the class, should always be in charge of its future.That way situations such as we have now are far less likely to occur.

  13. The following is addressed to all A Class vane sailors, some of which may have already received and responded to the request to vote on the proposal.

    It is here to provide clarity and as a request to those that have not yet voted to do so.

    INTRODUCTION

    Peter Wiles and Bill Green have been nominated to IRSA by the MYA to a committee to look in to setting up an international class association (ICA) for the A Class. The group is chaired by an Australian, Glenn Dawson. The group has not yet started, but similar ICA's are being set up for the Marblehead and 10Rater classes and of course the IOM ICA works well. The prime role of the ICA's would appear to be the promotion of the class and involvement in major international events. It will also be a vehicle for the owners’ views to be communicated to IRSA and vice versa, again the full extent is yet to be defined. Each of the ICA’s reflect the class and the users. The work of those involved would be to establish the who, what where, when and how of the organisation and will include of the views of all owners. It could to be said that this ICA will benefit from work put in to create the former International Owners Association. Both Peter and Bill were involved in the previous IOA and are conscious of the lessons learned.

    One of the key elements in the initial thinking is that of the inclusion of the vane sailing community in to this group. The free sailing A Class community is strong in the UK and it is right that two primary questions should be asked:-

    1. Can the free sailing A Class be included into the ICA? The answer to that is Yes.

    2. Does the vane community want to be included into the ICA? That is down to the free sailing community to decide.

    Joining the ICA does carry with it the requirement to accept the IRSA 2016 A Class rule, which would be modified with a Free Sailing Supplement that has already been developed by the MYA Technical Team.

    There are disparate views, some of a viable future some steeped in history, some of uncertainty, most of which have been expressed in discussions in clubs. The questions asked and their answers are attached. What is clear, is that if the FS community does not join the ICA it will have to form an Association to administer its own rules, sailing and be self-sufficient within the MYA n a very similar manner to the new classes to the MYA. The Footy and Dragon classes are good examples of this. In the current climate, it is difficult to see how this would be achieved for the FS A Class.

    A poll has been taken of the free sailors to establish their view that resulted in a vote in favour of inclusion. However, the response was low, so to enable those that have not expressed a view the closing date is now extended to Friday 2 June.

    If you have already voted that vote still counts, however, if you have not already voted you are encouraged to do so. Attached is the document put forward by the FS Class Captain Anthony Warren please return your vote to him by the closing date of June 3. Votes received after that date will not be included. Also attached are the FAQ’s and the responses for your help and information.

    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

    1; QUESTION Will it be necessary to accept the 2016 measurement rule if we join the Radio A’s in an International Class Association?

    ANSWER Yes.

    2; QUESTION If we decide not to join, what would happen then?

    ANSWER It appears to be unlikely that the MYA would continue to support the ’94 rule if we refuse to accept the new rule. It would be necessary to form and manage a Vane A association, in the same way as other satellite classes.

    3; QUESTION What is the benefit in accepting amalgamation with the RA’s in the new association?

    ANSWER The combined association will have more leverage in future negotiations with IRSA. There’s strength in numbers. There are also World Sailing regulations which controlling the relationship between a formally convened association and its parent body, IRSA.

    4; QUESTION If we accept the ‘new’ measurement rules, how will grandfathering affect my existing Vane A?

    ANSWER Only if being measured to the 2016 Rule, boats measured to previous rules are covered by a “Grandfather” clause in the 2016 Rule. For most people, very little. Most boats initially measured under the ’94 rule would see only a minor difference in sail area if re-measured if anything. Some boats would be more seriously affected; some ‘Lightenings’, for example, have a stern bustle configuration which would need surgery to bring into line. For the most part, any required change would be minor.

    5; QUESTION Would I have to have my boat re-measured?

    ANSWER Your boat would only need to be re-measured if you made any major alterations, for example fitting a new lead or a new and different mast. Generally, if the boat is kept within the plus or minus 100g weight bracket shown on the certificate there is no need to re-measure.

    6; QUESTION Is the 2016 rule more complicated than the 94 rule?

    ANSWER Yes, and the rules and the measurement forms are more detailed as well. But in theory the rule calculates for the rating in the same manner.

    7; QUESTION How will the new measurement supplement enabling the inclusion of Vane A’s work?

    ANSWER The supplement has been carefully developed by the MYA Technical Team to function almost exactly as the 94 rule. There are some minor differences, for example the spinnaker pole is measured from the face of the mast, rather than previous centre of the mast, which always had to be ‘guesstimated’. The supplement also deletes the tight restriction on QBL differences, thus allowing amateur-built boats a little more leeway. Also the restriction on sail sizes is removed.

    8; QUESTION Will we have to accept multiple certificates, and will these cause problems for event measurers?

    ANSWER It is expected that competitors will be required to lodge their certificates two weeks prior to a major event, unless there are special circumstances. Spars, leads and fins will have to be marked to prove that they ‘belong’ to a specific certificate. For some owners who live away from the centres of A boat activity there is some advantage in multiple certificates in that different iterations can be formalised in a single trip to the measuring tank!

    9; QUESTION Who will have control over the Free Sailing Yacht Racing Rules?

    ANSWER Once affiliated with IRSA, the MYA would keep control over the racing rules.

    10; QUESTION If we accept amalgamation, who would continue to manage and control the measurement supplement?

    ANSWER This would continue to be the function of the MYA’s Tech Team, in conjunction with IRSA and in accordance with the regulations controlling the relationship with IRSA. See question 3.

    COPY OF THE EMAIL SENT TO ALL VANE SAILORS BY THE CC

    Dear Fleet Member,

    I understand from Bill Green that he and Peter Wiles have been nominated to IRSA by the MYA to sit on a small group to consider setting up a class committee for the A Class and whether Free Sailing wish to be associated with this endeavour.

    The Radio version of the A class through MYA is already of International status.

    Personally I feel and recommend that we should as Free Sailors apply to be associated too, using an A Class FS Supplement to 2016 IRSA.  

    I see the advantages as below:

    • Rejoin the International community once more under IRSA (in lieu of the now defunct IYRU). 

    • Adopt the new IRSA 2016 class rules and gain the benefit of regular updates and International administration.

    • Work towards International A class representation on an IRSA A class owners' association through UK committee members Peter Wiles and Bill Green with Australian Chairman Glenn Dawson.

    • A FS A Class Supplement also backed by Tech Team is under preparation.

    • Continuation with the existing MYA National FS Class Rule risks leaving this former International A Class, developmentally behind as a Free Sailing variant.

    Agree please to either 1 or 2 below replying to me no later than 2 June 2017

    1. I wish to see the VA class remain as currently administered Nationally by the MYA.

    2. I wish to see the VA class regain International status with an FS Supplement based on the current IRSA 2016 Class Rules.

    Any queries do give a ring or email as below

    Kind regards

    Anthony Warren

    Free Sailing Class Captain MYA

    Vane Racing Team (Chair)

    E:   tony@anthonywarrenassociates.co.uk

  14. As an owner of both radio and vane 36's I have the following to add to the thoughts.

    I have no problem with the use of carbon for masts and spars. The class is the only class which is unrestricted except for mast/spar material it is logical to remove this restriction and make the Class free in all respects. This would make it the only class where those with a will and a wish to experiment with different configurations using appropriate materials can do so. I for one would welcome that opportunity to try.

    For those that sail in salt water there is the added bonus of not having to renew the alumninium stub mast because the base has corroded away.

    This class is an endangered species it needs a shot in the arm, it needs something to differentiate it from the herd, make it appeal to those who want to play. There is now little opportunity for those that want to play in the current popular classes for original thinking to happen. The rule relaxation on materials can have that effect which would be good for the classes sustainability. It is a Class that has a limited appeal, it will never challenge the IOM's and the M's of this world in the popularity stakes but to those that do sail them, do appreciate their little quirks and idiosyncratic ways.

    On the subject of who should approve this change and that's clearly with the owners, the days are long gone when these matters could only be changed at the AGM. Even when it was it was only the clubs that sailed the Class could vote on it so the current consultation and approval is entirely appropriate.


    Me, I commend the concept to the house.

  15. At the September Council meeting it was agreed that the Ranking points awarded to the IOM National should be increased to 200 points. After consideration and discussion within the Racing Regulation Team it has been realised that this has the potential to create problems for those who want to enter the proposed IOM World Championships in 2017. It has therefore been decided to revert to the pre September scoring of 100 points per eligible event. During 2016 the Racing Regulation Team will review both the scoring system and eligible events, in conjunction as many as we can, so that we can come to a conclusion for implementation in 2017. I'm sure that all will recognise this a sensible move and that time is required to arrive at a conclusion. As it has been said the Ranking System has served the UK well, it has provided us with many World and European Champions over lengthy period of time and it's not something that should be treated lightly. The intention is that early in the New Year a discussion will begin to garner opinion as to what changes, if any, shall be be made. This forum is the ideal vehicle to use to gather that information and I hope that all interested persons will positively contribute to that discussion.

    Bill Green

    MYA Racing Officer

  16. The Racing Team received representation from a number of the top skippers to move the date of the Ranking Event to be held at Two Islands in June as it was too close to the European Championships in Spain. Participation at Ranking events is important for those that want to sail at World and Euro levels and so discussions were held with the water users at Two Islands. After that a series of discussions with all affected at the site took place, the weekend of the 28/29 May was the only date that fitted with all concerned. It is a Bank Holiday weekend and we know that's something that is usually avoided for an event such as this but it is the best compromise we were able to achieve. As with all compromises it's not going to be ideal for everyone but it's the best that could be done given the circumstances. The MYA racing calendar has been amended to suit.

    Bill Green

    MYA Racing Officer

  17. Here is the CC's Report

    Once again another successful year for IOMICA GBR NCA, all due to the continued support that the class receives from it’s members.


    The class continues to grow with the number of registered owners rising to 1082 and the number of certified owners (those who have measured boats) up to 1061. As a matter of interest the number of measurement certificates issued to date is now 3835. This poses the question as to where are all the other boats? There must be an awful lot up in lofts.


    The list of measurers has also risen to 127, could be more as I know there are a whole lot of clubs without their own measurers. Hopefully next year will see an increase in the number, Roger Stollery is more than willing to guide prospective measurers to achieve the standard.


    The 6 National Ranking events attracted an average entry of over 50 with the winning honours being shared by Brad Gibson (2), Rob Walsh (2), Martin Roberts and Graham Elliot.


    At the national Championships which were held at Lincoln for the first time, Rob Walsh came out on top, with Zvonco Jelacic 2nd and Brad Gibson 3rd. These 3 positions were covered by 4 points, which shows just how close the racing was. Talking about the Nationals, well done Mick Chamberlain and his team who really worked hard to produce a well run event.


    11 sailors represented the GBR at the World Championships in Foster City USA. 3 GBR sailors were in the top 7 with Brad Gibson regaining his World title, Peter Stollery 2nd and Rob Walsh 7th. Congratulations should also go to Graham Bantock who went over to Australia and won their A class, 10 Rater and IOM National Championships, with borrowed boats.


    The 2016 European Championships will be held in Victoria Spain, what is the betting that one of the afore mentioned gentlemen will return with the title.


    In June there was an emergency rule change with regards to gooseneck fitting, this was obviously done to accommodate the World Championship. To date the subject is still being discussed but should be ratified at the IOMICA AGM. If you have a couple of hours to spare look it up on their website, but I warn you, you may be more confused than when you started. I believe Roger Stollery and his technical team are still working on the subject.


    The IOMICA AGM will be taking place on 22nd November. Amongst the proposals is one from Croatia, they are proposing that the HMS system be replaced at World and European Championships By the Simple Heat Racing System.


    As this change would only affect our sailors who sail abroad, our top 30 odd sailors were asked for their opinion on the matter, the large majority of those who replied elected to stay with HMS and this will be conveyed in our voting at the AGM.


    Next year sees the National Championships at West Kirby, hosted by the Birkenhead club, with Ranking events at Eastbourne, Midland and 2 Islands Sailing Clubs. I am certain that these will once again be well attended as the fleet continues to go from strength to strength. One last point – it would be nice to see more members sign onto the GBR IOM site – to get the latest news as it happens.

  18. Graham

    I don't have problem with anyone expressing their thoughts and opinions, you are right that is what Forums are about. I'm sorry you can't join us I'm sure you would be an asset.

    I'm sure Vinnie will be talking to Scotland as he did before and we welcome input from all the Districts.

    Enjoy the Nat

    Bill

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