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John Ball

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Posts posted by John Ball

  1. I am in Canada and have had items shipped from Europe, AUS, NZ, and USA to Canada.

    When they arrive they are subject to customs duties and taxes. When the package was shipped via courier (eg FedEx or UPS), there were also customs brokerage fees, but that did not occur when shipped by postal package - so ask the shipper to use the mail service and not a courier.


  2. It sounds like you may be touching on two points. First, if you were both on the same gybe, when he altered course, he has to give you room to keep clear - R 16.1. As weather boat, you were required to keep clear (R11 W/L). From your description, you were able to keep clear - so no rule broken by either boat.

    Next if there was a mark involved, he bore way just before he reached the zone to break any overlap - so he gains mark room.


  3. Welcome to our sport/hobby. Hopefully, you may find someone local to become a mentor to help you set up your boat - it is much easier to sail a boat that is in tune, than one that is off.

    One problem for newcomers is steering (or over-steering), and especially if sailing directly towards yourself – as left and right become reversed – but it does improve with time and practice.

    Learning the rules is quite a challenge – so try to master some very basic ones first eg

    Port keeps clear of starboard,

    windward keeps clear of leeward,

    astern keeps clear of ahead,

    only tack if you are clear,

    give room to boats inside at marks,

    and when in doubt stay clear – BUT ASK AFTERWARDS to find out which rule would apply.

    There are some helpful sites to learn about the rules. You may find my site helpful – especially Chapter one – The Definitions. https://sites.google.com/site/johnsrcsailingrulesandtactics/

    When starting to race, it can be intimidating - you don’t want to screw up the other boats’ races – so what we do with my local fleet for newcomers, is to have them start at the 30 second point – this puts them in clear water around the course, and as they get overhauled, the fleet is spaced out. So less pressure on them. As you improve, you will no longer need the head start, and will begin to start with the fleet.


  4. Dave I found the answer in your post -

    But happily Boat A protested the evil boat 11

    a) Boat 11 Infringed upon Boat A by not allowing sufficient Room for A to TACK

    And my comment is that there is no obligation for a trailing boat to provide a leading boat for 'room to tack' except at an obstruction (R 19 and R 20).

    Was there an obstruction?

    Did A hail for 'room to tack'?


  5. Dave Alston said:

    The issue as to if there was a contact or not is really going to determine if Boat A should be disqualified or not.

    Again - should boat A be disqualified.

    If Green (Evil 11) on stbd had to alter course to avoid Yellow on port then Yellow has failed to keep clear and breaks R10 P/S. There does not have to be contact. So in a protest hearing, Yellow should lose.

    The PC could find that there was sufficient room and that Green did not have to alter course, and dismiss the protest. This is a likely outcome if Green did not protest Yellow.

    If Green chooses to tack to port to avoid Yellow, then Green is not obligated to protest (she 'may' protest).


  6. Hi David,

    I have tried to diagram your incident. I think your reference to boat B was really boat A. If not, then we need more info about the positioning of B.

    Yellow is boat A, entitled to mark room,gybes to stbd to round the mark then once past the mark, tacks to port. (Note that Yellow's mark room under R 18.2.b ends as she was given room and had past the mark)

    Green is the 'dreaded 11'. She gives mark room to Yellow, and follows Yellow around the mark, but on stbd, hardens up close to the mark, and inside Yellow. and is forced to tack to port to avoid Yellow when Yellow tacks in front of her.

    Basically, this looks like Yellow breaks R 10 by tacking to port while Green is on stbd. Yellow is not entitled to any room to keep clear under R 15 as she tacked to port and caused the change in ROW by her own action.

    Another possibility but I cannot tell from your description, but if Yellow was futher ahead and had completed her tack to port, and then Green on stbd altered course such that Yellow was not given room to keep clear, then Green would break R 16.1.



  7. Hi Eric, not sure what kind of point you are trying to make here - just being facetious perhaps?

    The rules are quite clear - and the hail of "hold your course" has no import.

    The definition of Keep Clear says in part

    Keep Clear A boat keeps clear of a right-of-way boat

    (a) if the right-of-way boat can sail her course with no need to take

    avoiding action and,

    And RRS 10 says Port shall keep clear of Starboard.

    So 90 can protest all she wants - but based on that photo, she will lose the protest.


  8. Cannot guess aboout how the protest turned out - insufficient info.

    Here is a diagram that may not exactly resemble David's scenario, but should be sufficient to discuss the rules involved. For this discussion, David is Blue and having committed a foul needs to take a penalty, but the boats around him prevent him from taking the penalty.



    R 44 says to take the penalty as soon as possible.

    While Blue is continuing to sail the course, she is entitled to all the benefits and obligations of the rules. So Blue, on port, has to stay clear of Yellow on stbd.

    Green to windward has to stay clear of Blue R 11.

    Red, clear astern has to stay clear of Blue R 12.

    There is no rule that requires a boat to give to you room to start to take your penalty.

    There is a rule to stay clear of a boat that is taking a penalty R 24.2.

    There is a rule to stay clear of other boats while taking a penalty R 22.2.

    Going down wind, the best way to get clear of this group would be to try to slow down, and Red, astern would have to keep clear. Once clear, Blue can begin to take the penalty either by gybing then luffing to tack, or buy luffing up to tack thenbear away and gybe.

    If Blue tries to luff towards Green to make room, then as she alters course, she has to give room for Green to keep clear R 16.1

    If Blue gybes, she could be starting to take the penalty and must stay clear of Red and Yellow.

    If Blue fouls another boat while trying to get clear, she has to take a second penalty.

    If Blue fouls another boat while taking the penalty, she has to start that penalty over again (failed to get clear) and then a second penalty.


  9. Quote

    The problem is that people are expecting the Right of Way boat to quote the exact rule number and quote the rule word by word before they accept they are the give way boat.

    Not to put too strong a point on it, but what they ask for is rubbish. The preamble to the RRS says that by racing, each of you agree to abide by the rules. All the rules require (E6.3) is to hail in a voice loud enough for them to hear - your sail number Protest their sail number and repeat the hail.

    It is important not to get into an impromptu protest hearing on the bank - just hail protest correctly and then be silent and continue to concentrate on sailing your boat. Now they have a choice - either take a penalty turn or go the the protest hearing - where they may lose and be DSQ. Debating what happened on the bank just encourages poor behaviour and any loud arguments sets a poor example for other sailors and for members of the public who may be watching.

    When you file a protest, you are asked to provide the rule under which you are protesting - but it is important to note that you may even quote the wrong rule and it does not matter - the PC will correct the rule applicable during the hearing.

    If they don't know port from starboard, or windward from leeward, or if they don't know the basics of the four ROW rules, R 10 through R 13, suggest that they look at my web site and read Chapter 1 - The definitions -for beginners Racing 101 some sailing terms explained- and if they want to learn more about how to protest, then Chapter 7 The Protest



  10. I am not sure what you are trying to get at. As you say, there is no such rule. From what you describe, you are in the 1 minute prestart period, after the prep signal but before the start signal, so you are racing - so the rules apply. You are sailing along on stbd, so the port tack boats must stay clear of you (R 10). That is all there is.

    Another possibility is that they are trying to say something like - R30.1 ( The I flag -Round the end rule) is in effect and as you reach along the line, if you cross the line inadvertently in the last minute, then you have to go around one of the ends in order to start correctly. They may be saying 'dip starts are not permitted' - but that would only be correct if R31.1 is in effect. Or more seriously, if 30.3 U flag, or 30.4 Black flag is in effect, then you must retire.

    You are correct that the line is infinitely thin - you are either below the line or part of your hull/rig has crossed the line.


  11. I see the situation this way - Even though you have no rudder control at the moment, (stalled, no wind, etc), you are either still on a tack, or if you passed HTW, are tacking. So the rules that would apply if you were moving normally still apply. if you were 'keep clear' and they have to avoid you, then you broke a rule - so take a penalty once you have recovered. If you were ROW at the time then they have to keep clear of you - so if they hit you, they take the penalty.

    So no, other boats don't have to give you any special room and time - and your suggested hail has no value under the rules.


  12. The first rule to consider is E2.3 Boat out of Radio Control. If you hail your "sail number - out of control", the you have just retired from the race. You then become an obstruction, and cannot be further penalised for any subsequent incidents. And once retired - there is no 'take back'. What is less clear, is when you hail something like '"Hey! I've got no control" What you are trying to say is "please don't hit me - I cannot get out of your way'. I have chatted with some judges and they seem to agree that E2.3 applies and you have retired, even if you don't have a radio issue because you said essentially that you were out of control. So if you are stuck head to wind- be careful what you hail - best to keep quiet and let the boat go round you and deal with a protest if they call you out - a quick penalty turn is better than retiring.

    If you nose dive and suddenly decelerate, then you have not altered course - so a following same tack boat has to keep clear - R12. and if you are on stbd, a following port tack boat has to keep clear - R 10. If you are on port and the following boat is on stbd, you have to keep clear, R 10.

    If you nose dive and broach to one side or the other, you have altered course and may fail to give room to the following boat under either R15 (if ROW changes) or R 16.1 if you remain ROW.

    In light air, if you have no steerage, then the rules apply based on what tack you are on - and for example if you were on stbd and are now HTW, but not passed HTW then you are still on stbd. So the rules don't care about your boat handling problem.


  13. If the lead boat was clear ahead, then she should be able to tack to stbd without breaking R 13 tacking.

    While she is tacking, she is subject to R 13 and has to keep clear, and so the other boat briefly becomes ROW. So as you describe it, the following boat that altered course would break R 16.1 ROW alters course.


  14. Interesting question. What you describe is a windward mark to be rounded to port and two boats fetching the mark from outside the zone. A third boat tacks from port to stbd inside the zone, causing the leading boat above close hauled. There was no contact. The stbd boat did not protest. so what rules may apply?

    The port tack boat broke R 18.3. So either of stbd boats may protest Port, under RRS 60.1(a) as one was involved and the other witnessed the incident.

    Soapbox mode ON

    It shows the importance of protesting by the boat involved as her lack of action affects not just her own position in the race, but other boats too. When you break a rule, you don't 'owe' the penalty to the boat infringed, but to the whole fleet.

    Soapbox mode OFF :)


  15. This is an interesting question. Appendix E6.3 changes RRS61.1(a) so the hail is 'at the first reasonable opportunity.

    So the question becomes what is first reasonable opportunity? The replaced RRS61.1(a) says before finishing or as soon as possible after finishing.

    To me, even though she has missed a mark or rounded the wrong way, it is not clear that the boat is breaking R 28 until she finishes, as up to that point, she could go back and correct her error. So I could argue that the first reasonable opportunity is when she finishes, as that confirms that she broke R 28, However, RRS61 provides that you are not providing outside help when you hail Protest if you hail before she finishes.

    Would I hail at the time of the incident or at the finish? Probably as soon as it iwas obvious, and especially if the skipper is a rookie.


  16. An Observer does NOT call premature starters - that is the job of the Race Officer.

    One of the boats in a contact should protest the other.

    Any boat in the heat witnessing a boat hitting a mark, may protest.

    Any boat in the heat seeing a boat NOT sailing the course correctly (RRS 28 0 the string rule) may protest.

    You may find my Chapter 4 Hailing and Chapter 9 The Protest useful.



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